Challenges to ATF “Ghost Gun” Final Rule (ATF 2021R-05) Megathread

[ddestruel]

I’m curious if justice Alito sees this case as a quick opportunity to affirm the 5th ruling in its entirety or advise the lower courts and keep the guardrails up preventing other pending cases from receiving a distorted form of THT from a lower court looking to play games with similar details

 

[pcfixer]

Would be nice if the USSC could codify a firearm by getting rid of the "readily converted" part.

i.e., if you can't just assemble, load, and cock it, it ain't a firearm.

I'd think Alito will/does confir with All justices- And will confirm what at least 5 advise/consent on postion.

We alread y know. this is no go: Government position.

The recent explosion in the availability and use of ghost guns is a grave threat to public safety: Ghost guns provide an attractive and all-too easy way for felons, minors, and others who are prohibited from purchasing firearms to evade the background-check requirement that would otherwise prevent them from easily obtaining firearms.

My opinion is formed much by this. Yea, I could be wrong too.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/23/23A82/274516/20230802163833473_No.%2023A82%20-%20SAF%20DD%20JSD%20Response%20to%20Stay%20Application.pdf

from page 13.

At issue in Defense Distributed and SAF’s Count Two is the Agencies’ procedural failure to consider the historical factors and data that Bruen deems relevant—a process-based APA illegality that warrants setting the Final Rule aside regardless of how outcome-based claims turn out.4

The final considerations of equities and the public interest favor immediate relief. For just as the district court recognized, the “public interest is served when administrative agencies comply with their obligations under the APA.” Doc. 56 at 21. There is no harm in simply maintaining, pending appeal, a status quo which has existed for decades.

 

[Blacksmith101]

Breaking news! The stay has been extended until 5 p.m. (EDT) on Tuesday, August 8, 2023.

Link to order:

https://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/courtorders/080423zr1_5426.pdf

Edit to add:
My speculation is either some other Justice or Justices are interested in the case or they are polling the court about something.

 

[sakislayer716]

Thank GOD Trump got those 3 justices onto the USSC.....

 

[john_bud]

I always wondered why 81% was a firearm and 80% wasn't.

Now there is a 21 min time to complete required? Based on what tool set? A 8 axis cnc pre-programmed by a 40 year experienced machinist? Or a diy newbee 21 yearold with a dremel and a 6pack?

 

[pcfixer]

I always wondered why 81% was a firearm and 80% wasn't.

Now there is a 21 min time to complete required? Based on what tool set? A 8 axis cnc pre-programmed by a 40 year experienced machinist? Or a diy newbee 21 yearold with a dremel and a 6pack?

There is NO Way- A 80% metal lower for AR can be drilled and machined trigger housing. IN 20 MINUTES OR 30 MINITES!
More like several hours.
AND there is NO Way a Poly 80 can one person drill out pin holes or fit both slide "locking blocks"
and trigger kit. In 20 MINUTES or
30 MINUNTES.
Those are not competent Nor experienced assembly persons.

 

[pcfixer]

Setup this up and machine in under 1 hour not possible either.

 

[john_bud]

Setup this up and machine in under 1 hour not possible either.

Heck, it would take a long time to even know what im looking at much less how its used

 

[teratos]

There is NO Way- A 80% metal lower for AR can be drilled and machined trigger housing. IN 20 MINUTES OR 30 MINITES!
More like several hours.
AND there is NO Way a Poly 80 can one person drill out pin holes or fit both slide "locking blocks"
and trigger kit. In 20 MINUTES or
30 MINUNTES.
Those are not competent Nor experienced assembly persons.

I can do an AR lower in about 30 minutes. 5D Tactical Pro and DeWalt handheld router.

 

[Blacksmith101]

I can do an AR lower in about 30 minutes. 5D Tactical Pro and DeWalt handheld router.

What would you estimate overall time from start to finished firearm?

 

[teratos]

What would you estimate overall time from start to finished firearm?

90-120 minutes, if I have to assemble the upper from parts. 45 minutes if I have a complete upper to slap on.

 

[Blacksmith101]

90-120 minutes, if I have to assemble the upper from parts. 45 minutes if I have a complete upper to slap on.

The ATF claims 21 minutes so it looks like you need more practice. Practice makes perfect!

Here is my latest link to motivate people to practice because I know these guys practice a lot:
My favorites are the motorized ladder starting at 7:00
And the hose lay at 22:36

 

[teratos]

The ATF claims 21 minutes so it looks like you need more practice. Practice makes perfect!

Here is my latest link to motivate people to practice because I know these guys practice a lot:
My favorites are the motorized ladder starting at 7:00
And the hose lay at 22:36

Lol. I won’t say how many I have done. It’s well above average. 21 minutes is just stupid.

 

[FrankZ]

90-120 minutes, if I have to assemble the upper from parts. 45 minutes if I have a complete upper to slap on.

Does this include running about looking for the parts or do you get those together first?

 

[teratos]

Does this include running about looking for the parts or do you get those together first?

I get those together first. Lol

 

[GTOGUNNER]

I want the ATF to build one, in 21 minutes. Then shoot it without doing anything else other than inserting a fully loaded clip (for the federal guys here) and then pull the trigger until the standard magazine ( clip. again for the fed) is emptied.

 

[teratos]

I want the ATF to build one, in 21 minutes. Then shoot it without doing anything else other than inserting a fully loaded clip (for the federal guys here) and then pull the trigger until the standard magazine ( clip. again for the fed) is emptied.

I want to see this too. It’s not possible with an AR. MAYBE with a Polymer80 Glock with a pre-assembled slide assembly.

 

[whistlersmother]

I want the ATF to build one, in 21 minutes. Then shoot it without doing anything else other than inserting a fully loaded clip (for the federal guys here) and then pull the trigger until the standard magazine ( clip. again for the fed) is emptied.

They'll spend three days hitting with a hammer, using an end mill to drill holes, and in the end manually demonstrate its a machine gun... AFT wouldn't do that, would it? And manage to convince a jury that its a machine gun...

 

[GuitarmanNick]

I want to see this too. It’s not possible with an AR. MAYBE with a Polymer80 Glock with a pre-assembled slide assembly.

If you want it to function, at least 40 minutes to do using a fully assembled slide, assuming you have decent mechanical skills, and all internal parts are Glock OEM. Aftermarket parts often lead to issues that require some tinkering before a build will function reliably.

 

[HaveBlue]

According to Fox. SCOTUS is allowing the ATF rule to remain in effect.