Clay Shooters are an "Interesting" Bunch

[trickg]

To give a bit of background, I've recently gotten the bug to shoot clays - right now while I'm getting my feet wet it's strictly trap - haven't even begun to think about skeet, 5-stand or sporting clays.

So in my endeavors towards this, I've acquired a new O/U shotgun - I chose a Browning Cynergy CX with 30" barrels - and I enjoy this shotgun. It seems to fit me pretty well, and I'm starting to shoot better with it.

Along with this whole thing, my wife has been accompanying me to the range, and has shown a bit of an interest in trying to learn how to shoot trap as well. This comes with a few challenges.

1. She's shoots left-handed and most guns are geared towards right-handed shooters.
2. She has short arms, so a full-sized gun really doesn't work for her.
3. She's a breast cancer survivor who has undergone some surgeries, so lymph edema is a risk, and I'm looking for ways to mitigate recoil and the subsequent bruising.

I have an 870 Youth Model 20 ga with an IC choke, but that's really not a great gun for this for her IMO, but I'm not really sure which way to go. In light of those things, I took to some of the Facebook clays groups to see if could get some suggestions towards a possible solution for my wife.

Keeping in mind the fact that my wife is absolutely brand new to this, and isn't even sure if it's going to be something she's going to want to pursue - something I've been sure to mention in my posting on the clays groups on FB - I've still gotten all kinds of wild suggestions.

Do clay shooters have more money than brains? It sure seems like sometimes it based on some of the suggestions. One guy suggested an adjustable stock setup that by itself is about $3500, never mind the cost of the shotgun it's attached to. One gal is convinced that nothing short of a custom fitted Krieghoff is suitable. Others are suggesting a Beretta A400, which IMO isn't a bad suggestion - but it's more than I'd like to spend.

I was thinking maybe a shooting vest with a recoil gel pad, combined with a Magpul 870 stock for my 870 Wingmaster 12 ga - the recoil pad on that is pretty soft, and at least that way we could get close to the correct length of pull. I've actually been derided for the idea that I'm not willing to spend money on my wife and therefore I'm setting her up for failure. Seriously?

I've seen some shotgun threads here in the past and I know that there is a bit of...I dunno - it just seems like no amount of money is too great when it comes to some of these folks and what they'll spend in order to get the "right" gun for their clay shooting endeavors.

And just think, Dad won trophies with an off-the-shelf Winchester Model 12. Go figure.

Ok. /rant.

 

[fishoholic]

May I suggest a kickeez recoil pad or a falcon strike for the 870. Both will add about 1/2" to 3/4" to lop so remember that. that's the cheapest way to reduce recoil in that gun. could also add weight to the stock or the plug cap. Dedicated trap/skeet/sporting guns tend to be heavier due to less recoil and smoother swing. The 870 youth or not is notorious for recoil though, and being very light. The A400 is a nice gun and almost absent of recoil with their kickoff system, although some don't like the gun to move when they shoot it though. the a300 can be had with kickoff for a lot less as well, or any other gas gun will have less recoil than the 870.


yes clay shooters tend to have more money than brains if they are serious in the sport. When I stage up to shoot, the gun rack on the skeet field can have upwards of 150- 200k worth of guns on it. Insane...

 

[MaxVO2]

****Higher end equipment for many sports can be very very expensive. Shotguns, but also long range rifle shooting, bullseye pistol, air rifle and pistol, etc.. The equipment does make a difference as long as it is properly fitted etc.. but there are plenty of lower budget options available for those starting out, including used setups/guns, etc..

It’s the same with bike racing - you see some pretty expensive bikes out at the races and more serious group rides and the higher end equipment does allow an already fit person with experience to go faster, farther, etc.. as the equipment is basically an extension of their body and just flat out works better. A novice can get into the sport with much much less fancy equipment but as they get better will see that the higher end stuff lasts longer, is lighter, rebuildable, and provides other advantages.

Drag racing, yachting, fishing, falconry, sailing, swinging, etc.. all have higher end equipment that can be very very expensive.

No question some of the shotguns I see on the rack at the range cost more than most passenger vehicles, and some of their owners are just regular middle class people but who have made a significant investment in their equipment vs being some oligarch or one of our Rap superstars and heroes/international men of mystery, MCPS Superintendents, Batman, etc.. Some equipment is just crazy expensive at the higher end.

Now do musical instruments…

 

[Bertfish]

Yes they often have more money than brains. It seems to be a segment of shooting that attracts a particular crowd of folks who know best as well.

I've shot a huge amount of clays in my life starting in middle school. I love it. I've gotten more unsolicited crappy condescending advice at the trap range than anywhere. I too used whatever dad had in the safe. Even my "fancy clay gun" is just a field grade Beretta 391.

 

[Ponder_MD]

Do clay shooters have more money than brains?

At my club, there are definitely some fellows with high end guns but they never, ever try to push their tastes on anyone else. In fact, one gentleman running an $8 or $9k rig approved of my choice of Remington 870 Fieldmaster.

Sounds like you're at the "Bushwood" of trap clubs.

 

[Squaregrouper]

The sport seems to attract more pretentious assholes than golf.
She is welcome to borrow my Browning Auto 5 Light Twelve. It is the softest shooting 12 gauge I have ever fired.

 

[Medusa Joe]

what about something in 20ga semiauto like a left handed Benelli M2 Field (Benelli part number 11195)? 26" barrels, 5.8 lbs and approx $1300.

 

[Bountied]

At my club, there are definitely some fellows with high end guns but they never, ever try to push their tastes on anyone else. In fact, one gentleman running an $8 or $9k rig approved of my choice of Remington 870 Fieldmaster.

Sounds like you're at the "Bushwood" of trap clubs.

View attachment 453358

Is Lacey there? I want to visit.

 

[Sundazes]

****Higher end equipment for many sports can be very very expensive. Shotguns, but also long range rifle shooting, bullseye pistol, air rifle and pistol, etc.. The equipment does make a difference as long as it is properly fitted etc.. but there are plenty of lower budget options available for those starting out, including used setups/guns, etc..

It’s the same with bike racing - you see some pretty expensive bikes out at the races and more serious group rides and the higher end equipment does allow an already fit person with experience to go faster, farther, etc.. as the equipment is basically an extension of their body and just flat out works better. A novice can get into the sport with much much less fancy equipment but as they get better will see that the higher end stuff lasts longer, is lighter, rebuildable, and provides other advantages.

Drag racing, yachting, fishing, falconry, sailing, swinging, etc.. all have higher end equipment that can be very very expensive.

No question some of the shotguns I see on the rack at the range cost more than most passenger vehicles, and some of their owners are just regular middle class people but who have made a significant investment in their equipment vs being some oligarch or one of our Rap superstars and heroes/international men of mystery, MCPS Superintendents, Batman, etc.. Some equipment is just crazy expensive at the higher end.

Now do musical instruments…

Horsepower and money go hand in hand, how fast can you afford to go....

 

[RRomig]

We shoot clays every thanksgiving morning. So my knowledge is less than limited. What I do see is the younger guys and some of the women gravitate towards the semi autos due to the much softer recoil. I have a benelli M2 12g your welcome to try out.

 

[Redcobra]

Consider 28g.

 

[ezracer]

I've also noticed a good amount of high end guns where I shoot. I have a well preserved (used $1100) 30 year old Browning Citori 325 12 ga. I also have a $200 18" 12 ga. Mossberg pump that I use at Elk Neck just for fun. As for your wife, try something in a 20 or 28 ga. semi-auto with a good butt pad like a kick-eeze which should help mitigate some of the felt recoil.

 

[brownspotz]

Having things better than others doesn't make you better at them

 

[biermkr]

I suggest the Beretta A300 20 ga.

under $1000.

 

[delaware_export]

Trap is old farts. wanna have fun, take a SA over there and throw shells at them. Find a fart and stand to his left!

and they get winey when you shoot better then them and their 5/10/15k$ and up guns. You’re casting a shadow in my general direction.

(Ok, thats pot stirring, a little sarcasm, and some truth rolled into it. Don’t purposely throw the shells their way! )

youth model and id suggest an SA if possible. They are pricey for many 20g SA. i shoot a 870/20 regularly For skeet. I don’t notice recoil, but I am a big guy, a small stature woman may have issues. Sa can help. (pre bankruptcy, the youth 1187/20 was a good and cost effective option. A little heavier then montefeltro and others…)

if you get sa, find something that you can put a regular stock on if she doesn’t like and you keep. Or that retains its value, lightly used.

or better yet, see if any local ranges have rentals. Or if the folks you talk to have one to borrow. If there are women shooting, try approaching them and explaining what you’re doing. Gofer the 3some. Especially if they are of similar stature . They had to start in the same position. They may be willing to help another woman to get started. and it’s cheaper then blindly purchasing with no experience

good luck in your search!

 

[delaware_export]

One other thought. If you can get out with the 20 youth, and no one is around, see if they can lock it down straight when your mrs shoots the first few rounds. It minimizes variables and builds confidence for the first few rounds .

start center position, then move left/right to get angle…

also, if they have an instructor, maybe pay for A lesson or two.

 

[trickg]

Lots of great responses - thanks everyone!

I ended up leaving that Facebook group, and after only a few days - it got worse on FB after I created this thread here.

Apparently I must have said something offensive when I suggested putting a Magpul SGA stock on our 870 Wingmaster as a means to try to fit a gun to her until we can decide if it's something she wants to do. I was immediately hit with responses to the effect that I'm an @$$hole for not wanting to spend thousands of dollars on my wife for a custom-fitted shotguns, and then they got combative when I wanted to discuss whether or not that was the only path forward, and whether I could find a way to improve the situation that didn't involve a considerable outlay of cash.

I got responses to the effect of, "you asked for advice, but want to argue when it's not what you want to hear," and "the fact that you won't do this for your wife tells me everything I need to know about you." I was just a bit taken aback by the idea that I should put a brand-new trap shooter into an expensive custom setup, and I simply asked if all of that was actually necessary. I can't believe how ugly it got and how quickly.

One gal who was particularly condescending is a gal named Yim Lun Szeto. Apparently she works for Midway USA as the Southwest Program Manager for the Midway USA Foundation. I get it that she's a woman in the sport and has been involved for a while, but it was mind boggling that she refused to submit to the idea that there might be other degrees of success to be had between shooting an 870 and the fully custom setup she was insisting was necessary.

The real issue is my wife's size - she wants to bump up to the 12 ga, I think mostly because now that I have a reloader for it, (along with tons of supplies for it, to include powder, shot and primers) it's cheaper than trying to feed that IC youth model 870. Unfortunately, any standard sized gun is going to be too big for her.

I appreciate the responses - it's good to see that I wasn't just imagining the condescending attitudes and the "more money = more better" mindset that seemed to be so prevalent there.

 

[RFBfromDE]

I have an 870 Youth Model 20 ga with an IC choke, but that's really not a great gun for this for her IMO, but I'm not really sure which way to go.

She's never shot before.

This is a great choice to get started.

Let HER tell you it isn't and if SHE wants to keep shooting she can get what she wants!

 

[trickg]

She's never shot before.

This is a great choice to get started.

Let HER tell you it isn't and if SHE wants to keep shooting she can get what she wants!

My thing with that gun is that I had a tough time with it - I'm hitting high teens to just over 20 with my shotgun, and I could only manage to hit 12 with that. She picked up Kyle's Browning BT-99 Micro Adjustable and knocked down 8 out of 10! I think in part it's because the gun is sized better for her, but it also had a tighter choke pattern and more shot to hit with.

I might also try a slip-on recoil boot for that Youth Model 20 ga - that would give it a bit more LOP, reduce felt recoil, and she might hit a little better.

In any case, it's a much less expensive option that what some of those other folks on FB were suggesting!

 

[RFBfromDE]

Less expensive but adequate is my sweet spot!