Condition Three Carry

[mrozowjj]

The reason you did not have a round under the firing pin of the old single action guns was that the pin was attached to the hammer. A blow to the hammer could cause the round to fire. I don't know of a SA/DA revolver made in the last 50 years, probably more, that had this issue.

My suggestion is more training and practice.

Also the Colt "Peacemaker" had a half cock "safety" that removed the firing pin from direct contact with the primer and prevented the trigger from being pulled which allowed people to carry with all 6 rounds in the cylinder. While some probably felt safer with only 5 rounds the same way some people here feel safer without one in the chamber saying it was unsafe to load 6 was in fact not true.

 

[The Terror]

http://www.fox8.com/news/wjw-elyria-robbery-txt,0,6139707.story

That woman absoltuely had the situational awareness about her to see what was going on. Had she not been carrying one in the chamber she would have had to fumble with the gun more and might be dead right now.

Good for her. This is a feel-good story.

 

[mikec]

Also the Colt "Peacemaker" had a half cock "safety" that removed the firing pin from direct contact with the primer and prevented the trigger from being pulled which allowed people to carry with all 6 rounds in the cylinder. While some probably felt safer with only 5 rounds the same way some people here feel safer without one in the chamber saying it was unsafe to load 6 was in fact not true.

On the 1873 didn't you use half cock to load/unload and as a fail safe, not meant as a carry option? By fail safe, imagine your thumb slipping as you go to cock the revolver. With no half cock, the gun would fire, with the half cock, the hammer would be stopped.

 

[FrankOceanXray]

Whatever you do, do it all the time. We need to train and be proficient with the one.

With that, the gun is drawn at a time it is needed and quickly. Carry the gun ready for the challenge. If that is too dangerous for you, look into other guns, method of carry or more training.

 

[Huckleberry]

Also the Colt "Peacemaker" had a half cock "safety" that removed the firing pin from direct contact with the primer and prevented the trigger from being pulled which allowed people to carry with all 6 rounds in the cylinder. While some probably felt safer with only 5 rounds the same way some people here feel safer without one in the chamber saying it was unsafe to load 6 was in fact not true.

Greenhorn, you're either gonna blow a hole threw yer boot, leg or horse carrying a smokewagon with the the hammer down on anything but an empty chamber! Don't do it with any Colt SAA or one of the Italian copies. Only SA that you can carry 6 is a Ruger NM BH due to the transfer bar system or a Colt clone with a transfer bar set up. You need to read some Elmer Keith.

On the 1873 didn't you use half cock to load/unload and as a fail safe, not meant as a carry option? By fail safe, imagine your thumb slipping as you go to cock the revolver. With no half cock, the gun would fire, with the half cock, the hammer would be stopped.

Here's somebody that I would trust with a Colt or Italian Job SAA.

 

[smores]

Here's somebody that I would trust with a Colt or Italian Job SAA.

I like the term "Spaghetti Gun"

That being said I'd love an Uberti Cattleman or Beretta Stampede. Or I should grow a set and save up for a real deal Colt.

 

[mikec]

Here's somebody that I would trust with a Colt or Italian Job SAA.

When do you give me the gun??

 

[Biggfoot44]

The half cock notch is for loading/unloading. The Quater cock notch is supposed to stop the hammer a short distance from primer if thumb slips while cocking. If used as a carry mode, a sharp rap on the hammer spur ( like dropping it, or bumping into somthing) will frequently shear the notch off , and then fire.
Since I have SAs of both flavors I standardize on empty chamber on all of them.

 

[Huckleberry]

When do you give me the gun??

I said "trust" not "give". Real man only wants what he can earn for himself. Living on the "gratis" of others only makes you weak and a burden on society.

Now, catch me at a shoot or range and I may let you shoot my Italian Job SAA or Ruger Vaquero. If you like one, then you'll just need to saddle up, Cowboy, and hit the trail to earn one for yourself.

 

[kalister1]

Load one, Skip one, Load four. That drops the hammer on an empty cylinder. The Ruger Old Army black powder revolver has a notch between each cylinder to drop/rest the hammer on so you can load all six. This notch locks the cylinder so it cannot rotate without pulling the hammer back far enough to dis-engage the notch

 

[carryaglock]

+100 This

I see no reason for anything other than condition 0 or condition 1, but that's because of the guns I use. I like Glocks and revolvers. There's no reason to leave a chamber empty in either weapon, none. If the gun is out of your control, it needs to be locked up where it's inaccesible. If it's under your control then it's there to be deployed as rapidly as possible.

 

[mikec]

I said "trust" not "give". Real man only wants what he can earn for himself. Living on the "gratis" of others only makes you weak and a burden on society.

Now, catch me at a shoot or range and I may let you shoot my Italian Job SAA or Ruger Vaquero. If you like one, then you'll just need to saddle up, Cowboy, and hit the trail to earn one for yourself.

If one never asks, one never knows. I did spend my gun budget for this month on a nice .22LR bolt gun.

BTW, what brands of "Spaghetti Gun" are approved by MD? Is there one make that is better than another?

 

[hole punch]

Sorry to resurrect a dead thread, but I stumbled across this accidentally, and it applies to me right now.

I carry around the house all the time in condition 3, mainly because I'm not 100 comfortable with one in the pipe, all the time, but also because of the issue of constantly loading and unloading and tearing up the rim of the top cartridge, therefor having to always cycle the top round to the bottom of the mag.

Am I setting myself up for failure, either by not being ready in, as Mr Ayoob would put it, "the gravest extreme", or by training myself in a technique that I will eventually abandon for more practical measures?

If I'm askeered of keeping a round in the chamber, does I simply need my training/trigger time to over come that hangup?

edit: btw, I'm carrying a variety of semi-autos, sometimes concealed, sometimes open, just whatever flavor I'm feeling that day. Usually Glock or Tokarev openly, strong side, or cz.82 or P.64 concealed, IWB 11 o'clock is typical, depending on what mood I'm in and whether or not I have company.

 

[WSM]

Sorry to resurrect a dead thread, but I stumbled across this accidentally, and it applies to me right now.

I carry around the house all the time in condition 3, mainly because I'm not 100 comfortable with one in the pipe, all the time, but also because of the issue of constantly loading and unloading and tearing up the rim of the top cartridge, therefor having to always cycle the top round to the bottom of the mag.

Am I setting myself up for failure, either by not being ready in, as Mr Ayoob would put it, "the gravest extreme", or by training myself in a technique that I will eventually abandon for more practical measures?

If I'm askeered of keeping a round in the chamber, does I simply need my training/trigger time to over come that hangup?

edit: btw, I'm carrying a variety of semi-autos, sometimes concealed, sometimes open, just whatever flavor I'm feeling that day. Usually Glock or Tokarev openly, strong side, or cz.82 or P.64 concealed, IWB 11 o'clock is typical, depending on what mood I'm in and whether or not I have company.

Unloaded guns make great paperweights but they aren't good for much else. Start keeping one in the chamber, it is the only way to overcome the anxiety of carrying condition 0/1. It's not too bad, I was overly cautious for the first couple days I carried cocked and locked. So, why would you be constantly unloading your gun? I never unload mine unless I absolutely have to.

P.S. It doesn't take training to carry a loaded gun, just common sense.

 

[Magnumite]

With the exception of the SAA army design and the alluded to cheap Raven type guns, I see no reason to carry in Condition 3. Some say if you don't feel comfortable with the semi auto or 1911 chambered, go to the DA revolver. How is that any different - there is still a round chambered in the revolver. How is that different than having one up the spout of a semiauto? Its training and familiarity with the gun.

 

[mark1070]

With a 4 lb trigger and no safety switch, I've never felt a Glock safe enough to keep one in the chamber unless holstered. On the other hand, I have no problem with my S&W BG380; it's as safe as a semi-auto can be. S&W designed it with a double action 12 lb trigger. lol, it almost take two fingers to pull. And it has a thumb safety. For me, the gun makes a big difference.

 

[hole punch]

I think a lot has to do with my overall lack of experience with firearms in general. I've only been shooting for about 5 years, and have probably less than 10,000 rounds fired in my life. I started out with rifles and I'm very comfortable with rifles, but didn't own a handgun until 2 years ago.

I think with more experience, and hopefully some training, I'll be more comfortable with a chambered round.

 

[jaredm1]

For me, it's a good holster that puts my mind at ease when carrying a loaded Glock (or similar). Buy a reputable brand in kydex or stiff leather that is tailored to your particular gun...nothing "universal" or soft like those $10 nylon holsters from a gun show. Pay attention when holstering, then once it's in there, nothing's going to touch the trigger.

 

[Mr H]

Just to make sure we're all using the same terminology, is this it?

The Conditions of Readiness:

The legendary guru of the combat 1911, Jeff Cooper, came up with the "Condition" system to define the state of readiness of the 1911-pattern pistol. The are:

Condition 0 - A round is in the chamber, hammer is cocked, and the safety is off.

Condition 1 - Also known as "cocked and locked," means a round is in the chamber, the hammer is cocked, and the manual thumb safety on the side of the frame is applied.

Condition 2 - A round is in the chamber and the hammer is down.

Condition 3 - The chamber is empty and hammer is down with a charged magazine in the gun.

Condition 4 - The chamber is empty, hammer is down and no magazine is in the gun.​

If so, I'm a condition 2 person with a DA/SA SIG P228 in holster, hammer de-cocked.

Nice reference listing... thanks.

For me, it's a DA wheelgun at the bedside, but when carrying it's a semi-auto it's in C3 (unless I've got the P238 tucked away somewhere, then it's C2).

 

[blindnoodle]

2. That you lack the situational awareness to adjust to changing situations. I can always rack the slide and make the weapon ready at any moment of my choosing.


Mark

You can stand in line at the movies, remove your pistol from conceal, rack the slide, and return your pistol to conceal without anyone noticing?