Crofton threats suspect thread

[whiskeytangofoxtrot]

I think you are missing the point of the argument. If he made those threats, then yes, by all means, throw the book at him. But, the opposing point here is the warrant was based purely on the boss, who fired the guy, stating to police that the guy said what he said. Further more, since the boss knew he had firearms and told the police as much, now the police officer offers as evidence for a warrant 1) the guy made a threat ... heresay. 2) the guy had the means to act on the threat. 3) the complaintant "felt" threatened.

Does that really meet the expectation that someone should be visited by police with a warrant, involuntarily committed to the cookoo bin and to have his legally owned property confiscated?

That's what the trial will be for isn't it? A search warrant is to gather evidence, and that's what they did. I don't get everyone defending this guy, Why would you make those threats then throw up the 2A argument, it is past that not you threatened someone's life, and judging by his other thread about the AA county PD he seems like he has a few screws loose in the head.

 

[Jacks or Better]

If news items mentioning MDS are not showing us in a good light, why not archive all his posts? That way they are out of sight of the average user, but still available if law enforcement would by some chance want a look by contacting the administrators. Maybe even a temp ban on his account pending the outcome of his case.

Hiding what he had to say won't help paint us in a good light. I'd argue that hiding his posts would give proverbial ammo to the media and the anti's against us. Now is the time to be transparent. Now is the time for our members to think carefully about the words they choose when they are trying to sound tough, or like little Rambos, and instead speak eloquently, respectfully, and intelligently, about our rights, our firearms, our Constitution, and our opinions. Edit.. forget our opinions, more importantly we should show our support for due process.

Maybe it's time for a public showing a media campaign to show what we as an organization are about. Show our cards before the media paints us into a corner.

 

[Inigoes]

He made a stupid comment, but according to an Attorney commenting in this mornings Sun making a threat is NOT a crime, attempting to carry it out IS.

So does this justify a big brother mentality what are you thinking? what will you do??

Even worse is when some in government get illegally pro active and deliberately interfere with a persons job and family to attempt to create their self fulfilling belief.

The Constitution is there for a reason.

It does warrant a closer look at you by the authorities, if you say something stupid at the wrong time. Attention whores get the attention they ask for.

It's alway been that way, it's called an investigation. If there is nothing there, the authorities walk away. If there is something, they will look even closer and detain you.

 

[z1colt45]

If news items mentioning MDS are not showing us in a good light, why not archive all his posts? That way they are out of sight of the average user, but still available if law enforcement would by some chance want a look by contacting the administrators. Maybe even a temp ban on his account pending the outcome of his case.

I agree with archiving his posts. The ones that are linked at a minimum. Links to mdshooters.com are on 3 national site already, fox, ap, and huffpost. a russian site picked it up too for whatever reason. I know I'd read through his posts if i saw that link on a sight, might even cause problems with the server if enough people click it. i think the admins should put some kind of statement up on the home page or whatever saying that this kind of activity is not condoned while acknowledging that hes presumed innocent til proven guilty. this kind of attention isn't needed ever, and especially now that md is being forced to change their ccp reqs

 

[JMintzer]

My concern is this...

So many have said "he made threats", Or he made stupid comments". Says who?

If there is actual proof, then he's screwed, and rightly so. If it's just his boss' word? I think we have a problem.

How many times has a guy been screwed by his ex-wife/girlfriend by she claiming he said something that was simply not true? It can put you in a world of hurt...

Did the "alleged" threat warrant a visit? Most certainly. Possibly even a trip downtown for an interview. But unless there's concrete proof that it occurred... I don't now if justice is being served...


Jamie

 

[z1colt45]

Hiding what he had to say won't help paint us in a good light. I'd argue that hiding his posts would give proverbial ammo to the media and the anti's against us. Now is the time to be transparent. Now is the time for our members to think carefully about the words they choose when they are trying to sound tough, or like little Rambos, and instead speak eloquently, respectfully, and intelligently, about our rights, our firearms, our Constitution, and our opinions.

Maybe it's time for a public showing a media campaign to show what we as an organization are about. Show our cards before the media paints us into a corner.

valid point.

 

[Mr H]

From what.

From 1970-1974???

 

[z1colt45]

From 1970-1974???

lmao. still better than most places though. wont stay that way for long with the constant expansion

 

[Mr H]

That's what the trial will be for isn't it? A search warrant is to gather evidence, and that's what they did. I don't get everyone defending this guy, Why would you make those threats then throw up the 2A argument, it is past that not you threatened someone's life, and judging by his other thread about the AA county PD he seems like he has a few screws loose in the head.

I neither defend nor vilify the guy at this point. We just don't know enough to say (and no, being on an internet forum does NOT give us any collective expertise in ANYTHING).

Many here are missing the part that comes in the middle of all this... Investigation

If the PD (and the docs, I suppose) are doing their jobs, then we should trust--for the time being--that they are doing it properly.

If it turns out there is something hinky going on in that process, THEN someone should look into that.

Due Process is there for a reason.

 

[z1colt45]

i think if he disputed that he made the threat it would have come out by now. His friend is defending the statement as empty and sarcastic. can we at least all agree that a responsible gun owner would not make these threats, however empty, when you have the means to follow through? especially the joker thing less than a week after that happened, that's just ignorant and you wont see me coming to a 2a defense if his guns are taken away.

afterthought: this was definitely blown out of proportion by the news and if the shooting in CO didn't happen last week then this probably would have been handled differently, the end result would probably be the same though. id like nothing more for it to come out down the road that the threat was made up and the whole thing was a mistake, but the fact that police took him into custody, took him for a psych eval, and he hasn't denied it lead me to believe otherwise(and his posts about his run in with aa cops too). im tired of the negative perceptions about gun owners that come from people like this and it happened in my hometown this time.

 

[hornet]

i think if he disputed that he made the threat it would have come out by now. His friend is defending the statement as empty and sarcastic. can we at least all agree that a responsible gun owner would not make these threats, however empty, when you have the means to follow through? especially the joker thing less than a week after that happened, that's just ignorant and you wont see me coming to a 2a defense if his guns are taken away.

I think the same way, joker comments a week after the co shooting? Plus threatening people knowing that you own guns, thats just being irresponsible, even if he wasnt going to do anything, what is happening is what he deserve, if somebody i know or i dont threat me that he will go and kill me, i wont play rambo i call the police, if they dont threat me and they break into my house, i will get my gun and protect my family considering all the consequences, this is like somebody in the airport saying they have a bomb guess what will happen?

Is unfortunate that this guy share something with us which is owning guns but thats it, everybody is responsible for their own actions, if he screwed then sorry, he shouldnt get any support, and that doesnt make the rest of us bad people. With guns comes a lot of responsability.

 

[Safetech]

Yes it does meet the expectation, if you make a THREAT and have the means to carry that threat out you should be investigated to the fullest. When you threaten to harm people yes, the State has a duty to evaluate someone. .

Again, you are assuming that he DOD actually MAKE the threats.

What if it turns out that he never really said that, in the first place. And all the authorities were going on was the word of someone who may have just had something against the guy and wanted to screw with him, using the police/government/media as a tool to do so.

At this point (unless he has admitted to it) everything that has happened was based on hear-say, from a possibly biased source.

 

[Bikebreath]

I want to apologize to the Mdshooters mods and DD214 for the flack that they have to endure now that some one went off half-cocked.

I buy some Mdshooters items and I CONDUCT MYSELF IN A PROFESSIONAL MANNER when I'm on the site as a means of support. I also think about the firearms community when I'm at the range, on the board, at competitions, MSI rallies, etc...because my actions can reflect badly on the entire community and I feel responsible for that.

I expect humbling replies to this, but I could be disappointed.

Those that ask for proof of what the Crofton guy said: http://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=1769963&postcount=213

 

[Safetech]

My concern is this...

So many have said "he made threats", Or he made stupid comments". Says who?

If there is actual proof, then he's screwed, and rightly so. If it's just his boss' word? I think we have a problem.

How many times has a guy been screwed by his ex-wife/girlfriend by she claiming he said something that was simply not true? It can put you in a world of hurt...

Did the "alleged" threat warrant a visit? Most certainly. Possibly even a trip downtown for an interview. But unless there's concrete proof that it occurred... I don't now if justice is being served...


Jamie

BINGO!

 

[Safetech]

Those that ask for proof of what the Crofton guy said: http://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=1769963&postcount=213

I must be missing it.

Could you please show us where, in that warrent, there is anything other than hear-say from a third (interested) party, regarding the alleged threat. (Page and paragraph)

 

[hawxter996]

while i disagree with the "mass shooting" headline.
I firmly believe that if he made these threats,he is where he belongs.

 

[Safetech]

I firmly believe that if he made these threats,he is where he belongs.

Agreed.

 

[z1colt45]

i understand the concern over the warrant, but that kind of claim can be easily substantiated thru phone records partly at least. plus this person gave a sworn statement. what reason does he have to lie to the police about the threat itself. whether he actually felt endangered is a different story and imo irrelevant. they'll nail that guy to the wall if it comes out he was lying

 

[teratos]

while i disagree with the "mass shooting" headline.
I firmly believe that if he made these threats,he is where he belongs.

You are not giving the media what they want. No doubt they are monitoring the board and waiting for the "gun nuts" to come out and defend the guy. All this reasonableness is disappointing some folks.

 

[z1colt45]

You are not giving the media what they want. No doubt they are monitoring the board and waiting for the "gun nuts" to come out and defend the guy. All this reasonableness is disappointing some folks.

there are 5+ guests... i hope people do come and read this. and i wish more people that treat the right to bear arms as a privilege (it can be taken away) as well as a right would speak up. i know i'm condemning this guy already but the only way id eat my words is if he didnt make anything resembling a threat and the testimony for the warrant was bs. i dont care if the threat was serious or not.