CZ82 jam and double action

[jlnjca]

Tried out my CZ82 in the rage today. I used silver bear 9X18 ammo. Got two problems:

1. It jammed almost every one or two shots. Very annoying. See the picture attached.

2. Sometimes, it does cycle. But I only got double action on the next shot. Seemed for some reason the slide could not push the hammer to the right position?

What do you think the problem(s) is? What should I do?

I did not clean the pistol before I shot it. The gunsmith on site said if I cleaned and lubricated the pistol, I would not get the problems above. Do you think so?

Appreciate your inputs.

 

[CasualObserver]

I would start with a good cleaning. My last one had all sorts of dried grease up in it. Then start eliminating things. Try a different mag, a different recoil spring, ect. Could be any of these things plus others. I have found that the CZ82 is very very reliable so I doubt it is a major issue, but they are surplus so it could be just about anything.

I recommend buying 2 of all milsurps going forward... that way you can swap parts to diagnose issues like this :-)

 

[jkeiler]

I think it is a good rule of thumb to field strip and clean any used firearm, just for safety reasons if nothing else.

CZ82s are great guns, but they are surplus and who knows what could be in there? I just got one and while it was pretty clean, the feed ramp was had rust on it. I cleaned off the rust and polished it before taking to the range and had no problems, but had I not done that, I doubt that would have been the case.

 

[somd_mustangs]

Not familiar with the CZ82 but as CO and jkeiler point out, it is pretty much imperative to clean, inspect and properly lubricate any gun you acquire (even a NIB gun IMHO) before taking it to the range. A lot of these milsurps are jam-packed with old grease, cosmo, etc and may even slam-fire due to stuck firing pin. Plus you want to get to know your new baby inside and out!

 

[DrCatt]

Could very well be the recoil spring

 

[Rangeman]

and take apart mag clean/lube

 

[Machodoc]

I'd never consider taking a "new to me" firearm to the range without field stripping it and cleaning it thoroughly first. You never know what you might find that way (both good and bad), and some of the things that you could potentially find are definitely not ones that you want to discover as you blow the first round down the pipe.

Remember that these are 50+ year old guns, and they often were stored for years with heavy grease (cosmoline) packed all inside them to keep them from corroding. The dealers have NOT inspected or test fired these in nearly all cases. Be thankful that all you experienced were cycling problems. If the bore had been packed full of cosmo, we might have been reading about you today, rather than reading what you are writing today. This is serious stuff. You can find how-to videos on YouTube these days that show how to field strip and clean most different types of firearms.

To echo what others said, a good cleaning may be all you need, or it may require a relatively inexpensive spring replacement. The Vz. 82 is one of the most reliable handguns out there, so I suspect it's just packed with crud and dried grease.

 

[jlnjca]

Thank you all for for your replies.

To clarify, I did do brief lubrication of the hammer and the trigger group. Maybe that was not enough.

This CZ 82 came pretty clean (on the dry side). It wasn't kept in any grease looks like. The barrel was shinny.

The magazine was brand new on the day I went o the range. It was a CZ manufactured magazine for CZ 82. Its should not be the problem of the magazine, right?

Regarding the recoil spring, if it is old, I assume it is softer than a brand new one. If this is true, it should be easy for the slide to move backwards to push the hammer to position. If this again true, I should not get the double action problem， right?

How does a softer recoil spring contribute to jamming?

 

[whistlersmother]

Have you tried other ammo?

 

[Biggfoot44]

Through clen nd then lube as proprete , then determine if their are problems.

It would *seem* that the slide is somehow being retarded in it's backwards movement. Hypotheticlly could be the slide rails , or internally in the lockwork where the hammer requires excessive effort to recock.

But at this point dignostics don't matter. Clean EVERTHING and lube , then retest. If any issues then , start to figure the why , after you have a known baseline.

 

[Fishguy]

Thank you all for for your replies.

To clarify, I did do brief lubrication of the hammer and the trigger group. Maybe that was not enough.

This CZ 82 came pretty clean (on the dry side). It wasn't kept in any grease looks like. The barrel was shinny.

The magazine was brand new on the day I went o the range. It was a CZ manufactured magazine for CZ 82. Its should not be the problem of the magazine, right?

Regarding the recoil spring, if it is old, I assume it is softer than a brand new one. If this is true, it should be easy for the slide to move backwards to push the hammer to position. If this again true, I should not get the double action problem， right?

How does a softer recoil spring contribute to jamming?

Sounds like the recoil spring, if anything, is too heavy. Maybe someone replaced the original spring with the wrong one. Unless there is something painfully obvious, like the hammer is cocking with too much effort for some reason, I would start with a different magazine and or a different recoil spring. After fully cleaning and lubing, of course.

 

[Bob A]

Maybe cosmo in the magazine impeding feed?

 

[fred333]

I agree with most of the comments you've already received. I'd emphasize the recommendations about cleaning/oiling upon receipt of the gun (prior to first shoot). Also, as a general rule, I always replace recoil springs on older guns as they tend to lose tension over time. Likewise, magazine springs may form (i.e., lose tension) if they've been stored fully loaded for long periods of time.

Often, misfeeds're due to magazine problems. Before loading, press the follower into the magazine with your finger to see if it binds or sticks. Generally, it should compress easily and smoothly. If not, it's either dirty, dented or contains a formed/damaged spring.

 

[Fishguy]

I agree with most of the comments you've already received. I'd emphasize the recommendations about cleaning/oiling upon receipt of the gun (prior to first shoot). Also, as a general rule, I always replace recoil springs on older guns as they tend to lose tension over time. Likewise, magazine springs may form (i.e., lose tension) if they've been stored fully loaded for long periods of time.

Often, misfeeds're due to magazine problems. Before loading, press the follower into the magazine with your finger to see if it binds or sticks. Generally, it should compress easily and smoothly. If not, it's either dirty, dented or contains a formed/damaged spring.

Magazine springs lose tension from the repetition of loading and unloading. Keeping them loaded for extended periods does not hurt the spring; old wives tale.

 

[Abulg1972]

I've had the same problem with my CZ82 using hand loads. I've yet to shoot the PPU I bought for it. In my case, the magazine feed lips were trapping the case head. The case would be stuck in the magazine, pointing up but unable to move into the chamber. It wasn't the recoil spring, as I could not free the case with my fingers. I was able to minimize the problem by widening the lips with some needle nose pliers but it doesn't feed flawlessly yet. I need to spend more time tinkering.

 

[fred333]

Magazine springs lose tension from the repetition of loading and unloading. Keeping them loaded for extended periods does not hurt the spring; old wives tale.

Unless springs in magazines behave differently than all other types of springs, I think you may be wrong about that. As an amateur watchmaker, I test/replace lotsa springs and, over time, when left with tension on them, they always form or set (i.e., lose some of their springiness or ability to expand to their original [unsprung] length).

 

[Abulg1972]

Unless springs in magazines behave differently than all other types of springs, I think you may be wrong about that. As an amateur watchmaker, I test/replace lotsa springs and, over time, when left with tension on them, they always form or set (i.e., lose some of their springiness or ability to expand to their original [unsprung] length).

Not really. Here's a great answer that I stole because I couldn't have written it better (I have a B.S. in Mechanical Engineering that I've never used):

The phenomenon known as creep, as mentioned above, only affects materials at or above ~0.4x their melting point, in absolute temperature (kelvin). This is unlikely to be an issue in regular service unless your springs are made of something absurd like lead, which actually creeps at room temperature. (I am assuming the temperature increases as a result of firing the weapon are small) Stress-strain cycles, on the other hand, play a major role in spring wear. Ferrous material like iron and most steels exhibit an infinite lifetime under a particular amount of stress amplitude - not the absolute stress, which is generally far less - (the so-called "fatigue limit"). Less ductile materials like aluminum and titanium have a finite cycle life regardless of the stress amplitude; however, parts designed with these materials generally have lifetimes in the millions of cycles and fail by different modes long before the lifetime is reached. So obviously, the life of the spring depends on proper design and materials choice. The spring steel that your gun would most likely use is a moderately-high carbon steel, with potentially nickel, silicon and manganese alloying agents in small quantities. Properly designed, it would last far longer than the other components of the gun that are regularly undergoing thermal stress, diffusion, and much larger fatigue cycles. It's safe to say that storing your mag in a properly designed gun, will not wear out the spring prematurely. However, removing 1 or 2 rounds would increase the odds that you are maintaining the spring stress below the critical fatigue limit. As a footnote, springs in regular circumstances follow Hooke's Law, which states that F=-kx (k being a materials, or "spring" constant and x being displacement). Thus, spring force is linear to displacement. I saw this forum post from an article on the main page, and as a 4th year materials engineer student I couldn't resist signing up to answer your question.

Reference https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/does-static-tension-wear-out-a-spring.661309/

 

[Fishguy]

Not really. Here's a great answer that I stole because I couldn't have written it better (I have a B.S. in Mechanical Engineering that I've never used):

The phenomenon known as creep, as mentioned above, only affects materials at or above ~0.4x their melting point, in absolute temperature (kelvin). This is unlikely to be an issue in regular service unless your springs are made of something absurd like lead, which actually creeps at room temperature. (I am assuming the temperature increases as a result of firing the weapon are small) Stress-strain cycles, on the other hand, play a major role in spring wear. Ferrous material like iron and most steels exhibit an infinite lifetime under a particular amount of stress amplitude - not the absolute stress, which is generally far less - (the so-called "fatigue limit"). Less ductile materials like aluminum and titanium have a finite cycle life regardless of the stress amplitude; however, parts designed with these materials generally have lifetimes in the millions of cycles and fail by different modes long before the lifetime is reached. So obviously, the life of the spring depends on proper design and materials choice. The spring steel that your gun would most likely use is a moderately-high carbon steel, with potentially nickel, silicon and manganese alloying agents in small quantities. Properly designed, it would last far longer than the other components of the gun that are regularly undergoing thermal stress, diffusion, and much larger fatigue cycles. It's safe to say that storing your mag in a properly designed gun, will not wear out the spring prematurely. However, removing 1 or 2 rounds would increase the odds that you are maintaining the spring stress below the critical fatigue limit. As a footnote, springs in regular circumstances follow Hooke's Law, which states that F=-kx (k being a materials, or "spring" constant and x being displacement). Thus, spring force is linear to displacement. I saw this forum post from an article on the main page, and as a 4th year materials engineer student I couldn't resist signing up to answer your question.

Reference https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/does-static-tension-wear-out-a-spring.661309/

Lol. Can I just pretend to understand what this means?

So, which side of the spring debate do you subscribe to? Please use small words and talk to me like a 3 year old, lol.

 

[Abulg1972]

Lol. Can I just pretend to understand what this means?

So, which side of the spring debate do you subscribe to? Please use small words and talk to me like a 3 year old, lol.

I'm on the side of, leaving your mag filled does nothing to the spring. Springs that have been properly designed don't lose torsional strength because they remain compressed - they lose strength because they become fatigued from gajillions of cycles.

 

[jkeiler]

I don't understand any of this, but what I do know is that I replaced the springs on my Cz 83 with 16lb Wolff spring and Cz82 with 18lb and aside from being a little harder to pull the slides they work flawlessly with the new springs but did not before.