Denied Form 1/4? Collecting information.

[pitpawten]

Yes, indeed! Thanks to Nate at Stouffer Legal for this work.

Being that this is your first foray into NFA (as it was mine), may I suggest seeing them about a trust? They did mine and I couldn't be happier!

Good reminder on the trust, IIUC time is running out so def plan on going that route

 

[swinokur]

BATFE put off the ruling on trusts until 2015.

 

[pitpawten]

Reeeeeealy, ok then thanks for the info. Been way too busy lately to get all caught up. reading up on chickens, winter wheat harvest, vehicle restoration and plumbing at the moment

NFA is on the list but keeps getting pushed because that's one thing I know I can't just fudge my way through and have it come out ok!

 

[ericoak]

Reeeeeealy, ok then thanks for the info. Been way too busy lately to get all caught up. reading up on chickens, winter wheat harvest, vehicle restoration and plumbing at the moment

NFA is on the list but keeps getting pushed because that's one thing I know I can't just fudge my way through and have it come out ok!

You basically just fill out a 2 sided piece of paper, write a check, and then wait.

 

[pitpawten]

You basically just fill out a 2 sided piece of paper, write a check, and then wait.

I'm just looking to avoid step #4, Go to Jail

Things on my "to read up on list" are:

1. Form 1 vs Form 4
2. Pistol vs SBR
3. Buy the parts before or after stamp
4. Assemble before or after the stamp
5. Am I locked into a certain config
6. What is the etching of the receiver I see people talking about
7. How do I get one of those pre-86 DIAS I see for sale in Shotgun News

Joking on the last one but as you can see my list is probably all covered in the NFA FAQ...just haven't started reading yet

 

[armed ferret]

1. Form 1 on a trust. You can at least look at your stuff anytime you want, as opposed to form 4 at a dealer, they keep it.

2. pistol now, while you wait for SBR paperwork. that way, #3 and 4 aren't an issue and can be done immediately. if you don't want to make it a pistol first, then:

3. Either works, especially if you have a lower with no stock, but if you're not pistoleering before paperwork comes back and you're neurotic about it, wait to buy stuff till after paperwork arrives.

4. never ever ever assemble an SBR until you have the approved, stamped form in hand. if you go pistol, you can assemble that and enjoy it (mayhaps with a sig arm brace?) in the interim until your permission slip comes back with a yes.

5. with an ar-15 lower, pre-10/1, technically no. you can't permanently alter an NFA item from the configuration listed on the form (1 or 4, whichever it's on). obviously with an ar-15, you can just pop the upper back on; which means for my .300blk pending right now, i could put a 7.5" 5.56 upper on it if i wanted....just can't get rid of the 300blk upper since that's what's listed on the form 1.

6. you have to engrave the receiver with the information on the "maker" of the nfa item. for me that's my trust's name and location. there are plenty of resources on the intertubes about this already; search for "nfa engraving requirements" and you should find plenty of information.

7. pay a shitload of money and have a low-shelf receiver.

 

[NateIU10]

5. with an ar-15 lower, pre-10/1, technically no. you can't permanently alter an NFA item from the configuration listed on the form (1 or 4, whichever it's on). obviously with an ar-15, you can just pop the upper back on; which means for my .300blk pending right now, i could put a 7.5" 5.56 upper on it if i wanted....just can't get rid of the 300blk upper since that's what's listed on the form 1.

There is no requirement to keep it in the original configuration. A permanent alteration is completely fine. ATF "recommends" you contact them so as to update the NFRTR, but it is in no way required to do so.

A form 1 lists the original configuration when made/manufactured.

 

[armed ferret]

ah ha. an update. thank you kindly sir. i know a few years back it was different; glad to see that's been made more reasonable.

 

[ericoak]

I'm just looking to avoid step #4, Go to Jail

Things on my "to read up on list" are:

1. Form 1 vs Form 4
2. Pistol vs SBR
3. Buy the parts before or after stamp
4. Assemble before or after the stamp
5. Am I locked into a certain config
6. What is the etching of the receiver I see people talking about
7. How do I get one of those pre-86 DIAS I see for sale in Shotgun News

Joking on the last one but as you can see my list is probably all covered in the NFA FAQ...just haven't started reading yet

Only people I have ever heard of being prosecuted for NFA violations were asking for it, aka they had an illegal machine gun, purposefully cutting the serial numbers off of cheap guns and welding them onto more expensive guns, etc.

 

[ericoak]

I'm just looking to avoid step #4, Go to Jail

Things on my "to read up on list" are:

1. Form 1 vs Form 4
2. Pistol vs SBR
3. Buy the parts before or after stamp
4. Assemble before or after the stamp
5. Am I locked into a certain config
6. What is the etching of the receiver I see people talking about
7. How do I get one of those pre-86 DIAS I see for sale in Shotgun News

Joking on the last one but as you can see my list is probably all covered in the NFA FAQ...just haven't started reading yet

1. Form 1 on a trust. You can at least look at your stuff anytime you want, as opposed to form 4 at a dealer, they keep it.

2. pistol now, while you wait for SBR paperwork. that way, #3 and 4 aren't an issue and can be done immediately. if you don't want to make it a pistol first, then:

3. Either works, especially if you have a lower with no stock, but if you're not pistoleering before paperwork comes back and you're neurotic about it, wait to buy stuff till after paperwork arrives.

4. never ever ever assemble an SBR until you have the approved, stamped form in hand. if you go pistol, you can assemble that and enjoy it (mayhaps with a sig arm brace?) in the interim until your permission slip comes back with a yes.

5. with an ar-15 lower, pre-10/1, technically no. you can't permanently alter an NFA item from the configuration listed on the form (1 or 4, whichever it's on). obviously with an ar-15, you can just pop the upper back on; which means for my .300blk pending right now, i could put a 7.5" 5.56 upper on it if i wanted....just can't get rid of the 300blk upper since that's what's listed on the form 1.

6. you have to engrave the receiver with the information on the "maker" of the nfa item. for me that's my trust's name and location. there are plenty of resources on the intertubes about this already; search for "nfa engraving requirements" and you should find plenty of information.

7. pay a shitload of money and have a low-shelf receiver.

It's that easy.

 

[xgaspx]

There is no requirement to keep it in the original configuration. A permanent alteration is completely fine. ATF "recommends" you contact them so as to update the NFRTR, but it is in no way required to do so.

A form 1 lists the original configuration when made/manufactured.

My mind is officially blown. I had no idea about this. I thought we had to get a permission slip from BATFE for every little change in configuration, whether caliber or a half-inch longer/shorter barrel.

So I can put a 12.5" 300Blk upper on the lower for my approved 10.5" .556? Is this actually an example of a gun law that makes sense and is fair to law-abiding gun owners?

 

[armed ferret]

So I can put a 12.5" 300Blk upper on the lower for my approved 10.5" .556?

yes.

 

[ericoak]

Is this actually an example of a gun law that makes sense and is fair to law-abiding gun owners?

SBRs and SBSs being included doesn't make any sense (yes I know it was a compromise over banning handguns). NFA doesn't really make sense in general.

 

[pitpawten]

1. Form 1 on a trust. You can at least look at your stuff anytime you want, as opposed to form 4 at a dealer, they keep it.

2. pistol now, while you wait for SBR paperwork. that way, #3 and 4 aren't an issue and can be done immediately. if you don't want to make it a pistol first, then:

3. Either works, especially if you have a lower with no stock, but if you're not pistoleering before paperwork comes back and you're neurotic about it, wait to buy stuff till after paperwork arrives.

4. never ever ever assemble an SBR until you have the approved, stamped form in hand. if you go pistol, you can assemble that and enjoy it (mayhaps with a sig arm brace?) in the interim until your permission slip comes back with a yes.

5. with an ar-15 lower, pre-10/1, technically no. you can't permanently alter an NFA item from the configuration listed on the form (1 or 4, whichever it's on). obviously with an ar-15, you can just pop the upper back on; which means for my .300blk pending right now, i could put a 7.5" 5.56 upper on it if i wanted....just can't get rid of the 300blk upper since that's what's listed on the form 1.

6. you have to engrave the receiver with the information on the "maker" of the nfa item. for me that's my trust's name and location. there are plenty of resources on the intertubes about this already; search for "nfa engraving requirements" and you should find plenty of information.

7. pay a shitload of money and have a low-shelf receiver.

Wow, and just like that my reading is down by 50%, thanks

Still going to dig through the FAQ to have it all covered, but this was a great concise answer, good stuff.

One question, on #3 and #4, what is included in going pistol other than that it cant have a traditional stock?

Have to get it on the "Handgun Roster" I keep hearing about?

Still require a Form 1 to go pistol?

HQL (since its a new pistol)?

There is no requirement to keep it in the original configuration. A permanent alteration is completely fine. ATF "recommends" you contact them so as to update the NFRTR, but it is in no way required to do so.

A form 1 lists the original configuration when made/manufactured.

And this is great to know, definitely flexible and very unlike all the rest of the gun legislation.


Thanks to both of you for the great info, looking forward to my first build