Did MSP Contact Your References/Employer/Wife?

[Threeband]

There seems to be a lot of variation in the way the (sometimes retired) Troopers and others who process our permit applications handle references. Some contact all references, some contact one or two. Some people have reported that none were contacted. Likewise, they seem to make a practice of contacting wives and asking about abuse issues, asking how the wife "feels" about her husband carrying, etc. https://www.mdshooters.com/threads/did-msp-contact-all-of-your-references.192342/#post-4305965

Someday we may get these arbitrary and subjective practices stopped, but for now these old rules are still in force. Hopefully MSP will be so overwhelmed by the volume of applications that they will streamline the process.

Anyway, please use this thread to share your experiences: Did MSP contact your references? Your employer? Your wife? Your ex-wife?

 

[Mark75H]

What makes you think this is done by retired Troopers?

 

[Trbo6gn]

There seems to be a lot of variation in the way the retired Troopers who process our permit applications handle references. Some contact all references, some contact one or two. Some people have reported that none were contacted. Likewise, they seem to make a practice of contacting wives and asking about abuse issues, asking how the wife "feels" about her husband carrying, etc. https://www.mdshooters.com/threads/did-msp-contact-all-of-your-references.192342/#post-4305965

Someday we may get these arbitrary and subjective practices stopped, but for now these old rules are still in force. Hopefully MSP will be so overwhelmed by the volume of applications that they will streamline the process.

Anyway, please use this thread to share your experiences: Did MSP contact your references? Your employer? Your wife? Your ex-wife?

Most of the personnel doing the ‘background investigations’ (which really aren’t full blown investigations) are civilian employees of the state police. There may be a few who have retired from other police agencies but they are usually assigned to the applicant investigations for new hires.

 

[DC-W]

Here’s how it was done in 2017. My wife was asked about substance abuse and whether or not I’ve ever been physically abusive. The redactions below were done by MSP, but I was told my references “said very nice things” about me.

I’ve been a reference for others in the past and that’s what I was asked over the phone.

 

[Threeband]

Apparently they have a miscellaneous lot handling the investigations. I've seen mention in other threads of retired Troopers being among those handling the applications. Back in 2012, after the Woolard decision, MSP was swamped with applications, and I think they were using retired Troopers then. The link in my previous post is from 2012.

I think they're going to be overwhelmed like never before now, and it won't be a temporary frenzy like in 2012. Perhaps this time they'll have to subcontract the investigations to call centers in India.

 

[Art3]

Here’s how it was done in 2017. My wife was asked about substance abuse and whether or not I’ve ever been physically abusive. The redactions below were done by MSP, but I was told my references “said very nice things” about me.

I’ve been a reference for others in the past and that’s what I was asked over the phone.

That's neat that you got ahold of a copy. Thanks for sharing.

I was the spouse as a reference not too long ago. I don't remember the questions being any different than when I was a non-relative reference for my friend a few years before:
--Not an alcoholic (maybe they asked about drugs too...but definitely alcohol)
--Doesn't beat spouse (if I said so, she'd beat me more ).
--No other reason I'm aware of that they shouldn't carry.

 

[Threeband]

That entire interview process is an outrage. It is entirely subjective and arbitrary.

Good thing you were dressed "neatly." If you're a slob, no civil rights for you!

The questions assume that the issue is whether you should have a gun at all, not whether you might carry in public. Thus "... no indications that the applicant has exhibited a propensity toward violence or instability that may reasonably render the applicant's possession of a handgun a danger to the applicant or another person."

The applicant already possesses 14 handguns and 23 rifles. Possession is not the issue.

I hope they will be so overwhelmed that they will have to abandon most of these practices. They are not required by law. An investigation could be a simple and objective NICS check.

 

[thomfantomas]

Here’s how it was done in 2017. My wife was asked about substance abuse and whether or not I’ve ever been physically abusive. The redactions below were done by MSP, but I was told my references “said very nice things” about me.

I’ve been a reference for others in the past and that’s what I was asked over the phone.

Who was drinking that afternoon?
Definitely not You

"The applicant stated that he a couple of drinks"

 

[DC-W]

There’s some others in there lol

 

[DadOSix]

on my initial application. About 8 yrs back, traveled to the HGR barrack and met with a non-retired trooper. Went thru the interview, and was ready to leave. He stated he would need to contact MomOSix for a few questions.
great! I'll let her know. Btw - she is here with me. So he brought her back to the office and did those few questions and we were gtg.

he did ask her if she objected to my having a permit. They put a lot of stock in what the S.O. says and how S.O. reacts.

 

[K31]

Here’s how it was done in 2017. My wife was asked about substance abuse and whether or not I’ve ever been physically abusive. The redactions below were done by MSP, but I was told my references “said very nice things” about me.

I’ve been a reference for others in the past and that’s what I was asked over the phone.

I shutter to think what would have been the outcome if you hadn't "dressed neatly".

Maybe "Good and Substantial" should have been "Good and Well Groomed".

 

[Trepang]

They put a lot of stock in what the S.O. says and how S.O. reacts.

S.O. ? Maybe I am having a blonde moment but I can't figure out that acronym?

 

[Kinetic]

Significant Other.

I guess "spouse" doesn't cut it anymore.

 

[DC-W]

I shutter to think what would have been the outcome if you hadn't "dressed neatly".

Maybe "Good and Substantial" should have been "Good and Well Groomed".

Shorts, T-shirt, a fresh haircut and my friendly demeanor got me a permit. Totally unsubjective and fair not likely to have ever been abused at all. Nope. No way. Never happened. Nuh uh. Impossible.

 

[6-Pack]

on my initial application. About 8 yrs back, traveled to the HGR barrack and met with a non-retired trooper. Went thru the interview, and was ready to leave. He stated he would need to contact MomOSix for a few questions.
great! I'll let her know. Btw - she is here with me. So he brought her back to the office and did those few questions and we were gtg.

he did ask her if she objected to my having a permit. They put a lot of stock in what the S.O. says and how S.O. reacts.

I think that would be fair (to ask what your wife thinks) under may issue, because it’s at their discretion whether or not to issue the permit. Under shall issue, the law indicates the requirements and spousal approval is not one of the requirements.

I’d be surprised if the references are even contacted given the volume of applications. We’re at about 16,000 applications now (based on the other thread with the application numbers). This comes out to 177 applications processed per day to meet the 90 day deadline (assuming working 7 days per week). That’s 22 applications per hour. And this is all as of today - not taking into account any future applications. I don’t know how many people they have processing these things, but they’ll have to gain efficiencies somewhere along the line.

 

[Bertfish]

Significant Other.

I guess "spouse" doesn't cut it anymore.

Or senior officer in some marriages

 

[Threeband]

...
he did ask her if she objected to my having a permit. They put a lot of stock in what the S.O. says and how S.O. reacts.

Remember a few years back a woman in Baltimore County red-flagged her husband, said he was abusing her. Cops confiscated his pistol and revoked his carry permit. Shortly afterwords, her boyfriend murdered him in a fake armed robbery of his gas station. Bitch set him up.

I’d be surprised if the references are even contacted given the volume of applications. We’re at about 16,000 applications now (based on the other thread with the application numbers). This comes out to 177 applications processed per day to meet the 90 day deadline (assuming working 7 days per week). That’s 22 applications per hour. And this is all as of today - not taking into account any future applications. I don’t know how many people they have processing these things, but they’ll have to gain efficiencies somewhere along the line.

One of the main reasons for this thread is to keep track of that very thing: whether they indeed cut back on these outrageous infringements.

 

[kennyd]

Did MSP contact your references? Your employer? Your wife? Your ex-wife?

Yes, but just one as I recall
No (I had "self" on the application)
Yes
N/A

 

[snakep]

I believe the folks that do your "background investigation" are called Administrative Officers...you can look at the MSP website under jobs and see them listed there...some AOs are specifically written job descriptions as to conducting background investigations...

Most of the personnel doing the ‘background investigations’ (which really aren’t full blown investigations) are civilian employees of the state police. There may be a few who have retired from other police agencies but they are usually assigned to the applicant investigations for new hires.

 

[Darkemp]

There seems to be a lot of variation in the way the retired Troopers who process our permit applications handle references. Some contact all references, some contact one or two. Some people have reported that none were contacted. Likewise, they seem to make a practice of contacting wives and asking about abuse issues, asking how the wife "feels" about her husband carrying, etc. https://www.mdshooters.com/threads/did-msp-contact-all-of-your-references.192342/#post-4305965

Someday we may get these arbitrary and subjective practices stopped, but for now these old rules are still in force. Hopefully MSP will be so overwhelmed by the volume of applications that they will streamline the process.

Anyway, please use this thread to share your experiences: Did MSP contact your references? Your employer? Your wife? Your ex-wife?

2 of 3 references were contacted, wife was not. This was in 2021.