Disposition of Unfinished 80%s post 3/1/23?

[My Toy]

If I understand the Federal (ATF) Rule on 80% lowers correctly in most States one may possess an un-serialized lower receiver and need not have it serialized unless it is completed in to a firearm. In Maryland however the ruling elite bans possession of any un-serialized lowers completed or not after the above referenced date; with stiff penalties for non-compliance. Like an obedient subject I've had all of my completed 80%s serialized. Hopefully the Courts will overturn the ATF Rule in the not to distant future. A challenge to MD's law may be a long way off. So in the interim: what to do with the unfinished 80%s you may still own? You could hide them, bury them in the back yard, sell them to an FFL, etc. I for one will not be in possession of any unfinished un-serialized lowers after 3/1/23 -- the extreme penalty is not worth the risk. So what is the legality of transporting them out of state to a state that doesn't have any state restrictions (only the Federal B.S. to worry about). So I would be interested if someone who is versed in the laws of MD and other adjoining states would find this a legal way to preserve your property until the MD law is overturned or you may relocate to a more friendly state in the future?

 

[Jimgoespewpew]

Do you think they're going to come door to door looking for them? Or do you think they'll somehow know you have them? Just curious.

 

[Muleskinner]

Do you think they're going to come door to door looking for them? Or do you think they'll somehow know you have them? Just curious.

You can have them serialized unfinished if you want to...but seriously, we (i include myself in this) need to stop being lemmings.

 

[Jimgoespewpew]

You can have them serialized unfinished if you want to...but seriously, we (i include myself in this) need to stop being lemmings.

Yeah doing so seems like the equivalent of being a prison bitch instead of fighting back.

 

[Muleskinner]

Yeah doing so seems like the equivalent of being a prison bitch instead of fighting back.

To each his own I suppose. If your desire to remain "law abiding" is stronger than your desire to actually fight back then by all means jump through the hoops and beg the crown...Just don't come crying when they change the rules and take away your rights anyway. Ultimately that IS what will happen. The more we comply the more they infringe...because they know you will comply...

 

[Docster]

Being a "law abiding citizen" isn't the antithesis of ignoring clearly unconstitutional laws

 

[pcfixer]

this is abundantly clear.

Do not separate text from historical background. If you do, you will have perverted and subverted the Constitution, which can only end in a distorted, bastardized form of tyrannical government.

“By the way I call it "moral obedience" rather than "civil disobedience" because it is God's law". Those who try to promote un-natural laws on us are committing moral disobedience. It is our duty to resist immoral laws and actions.” By Richard Fry.

 

[My Toy]

To each his own I suppose. If your desire to remain "law abiding" is stronger than your desire to actually fight back then by all means jump through the hoops and beg the crown...Just don't come crying when they change the rules and take away your rights anyway. Ultimately that IS what will happen. The more we comply the more they infringe...because they know you will comply...

Being law abiding and fighting back are not mutually exclusive as you can't seem to grasp. There are 573 replies as of this morning to the thread titled "List of FFL's doing SN engraving". As you go through the thread you see that a significant number of those respondents are complying with what is an unconstitutional law passed by the commies in the MGA. I guess they also are all "lemmings" and "prison bitches" as described earlier. Yes I complied with the law by getting my completed 80%s serialized. My question was how to preserve my property (un-serialized, unfinished) without the risk of penalty under this B.S. new ghost gun law. "Do you think they are going to come door to door looking for them" as expressed earlier -- No I don't at least not now. But if you can't think of ways that your squirreled away un-serialized lowers could be exposed despite your best efforts to hide them you really lack imagination -- major fire in you residence, pissed off acquaintance that knows you posses them and wants to cause you trouble, et.al. Depending on where you live in this sh!t hole State there are anti 2A zealots that would love nothing more than to make an example out of you. Are you gong to actually show your constitutional meddle by taking your un-serialized lower out in public instead of just bloviating -- if not you may be the "prison bitch". Remember when we elected Fat Larry as governor and all rejoiced that things may be starting to change in this State. Well actually we have less R's in the MGA than we had before Fat Larry. Face it our likelihood of changing any laws in this State so you won't have to hide your constitutionally protected property are zip. In this State our only salvation will be the courts (and not MD courts). So in the mean time you can die on that hill if you want (2 years, $2000 per) or explore another way to live to fight another day -- and if you are going to stay in MD the wait is going to be until the SCOTUS decides.

(Hey, don't forget if things go far enough out of kilter in this wonderful State the authorities could get access to credit card records of purchases that were of previously constitutionally legal items. "We were just wondering if you still possess the items you purchased from Polymer80?") I know it sounds far fetched --just saying.

 

[letmeoutpax]

Red flag events don't have to be intentional or malicious. A family member extremely upset might mention your guns under questioning and the cops put 2 and 2 together, or you ever get so down a liberal friend/relative is really worried about you and wants to protect you from doing something stupid.

For most of America, 80% frames are still no big deal. You could travel to an adjacent state gun show and buy with cash if we start seeing targeted red flags. If you want to be tricky, find someone out of state who just does FFL type engraving and make appointment to wait while they are worked on. The ATF probably sees the Maryland engravers as honey pots, but I don't even know if I'm worried about that very much. Maybe evidence they are very common is a good thing for future legislation.

 

[Muleskinner]

Being law abiding and fighting back are not mutually exclusive as you can't seem to grasp. There are 573 replies as of this morning to the thread titled "List of FFL's doing SN engraving". As you go through the thread you see that a significant number of those respondents are complying with what is an unconstitutional law passed by the commies in the MGA. I guess they also are all "lemmings" and "prison bitches" as described earlier. Yes I complied with the law by getting my completed 80%s serialized. My question was how to preserve my property (un-serialized, unfinished) without the risk of penalty under this B.S. new ghost gun law. "Do you think they are going to come door to door looking for them" as expressed earlier -- No I don't at least not now. But if you can't think of ways that your squirreled away un-serialized lowers could be exposed despite your best efforts to hide them you really lack imagination -- major fire in you residence, pissed off acquaintance that knows you posses them and wants to cause you trouble, et.al. Depending on where you live in this sh!t hole State there are anti 2A zealots that would love nothing more than to make an example out of you. Are you gong to actually show your constitutional meddle by taking your un-serialized lower out in public instead of just bloviating -- if not you may be the "prison bitch". Remember when we elected Fat Larry as governor and all rejoiced that things may be starting to change in this State. Well actually we have less R's in the MGA than we had before Fat Larry. Face it our likelihood of changing any laws in this State so you won't have to hide your constitutionally protected property are zip. In this State our only salvation will be the courts (and not MD courts). So in the mean time you can die on that hill if you want (2 years, $2000 per) or explore another way to live to fight another day -- and if you are going to stay in MD the wait is going to be until the SCOTUS decides.

(Hey, don't forget if things go far enough out of kilter in this wonderful State the authorities could get access to credit card records of purchases that were of previously constitutionally legal items. "We were just wondering if you still possess the items you purchased from Polymer80?") I know it sounds far fetched --just saying.

So you believe you can comply and fight back at the same time. And while you are fighting back against what you're complying for they're passing more and more infringements to make you comply even more. No, you cannot fight and comply at the same time. The easiest way to nullify any so-called law is mass non-compliance. So compliance and fighting our mutually exclusive. Nice try though

 

[My Toy]

So you believe you can comply and fight back at the same time. And while you are fighting back against what you're complying for they're passing more and more infringements to make you comply even more. No, you cannot fight and comply at the same time. The easiest way to nullify any so-called law is mass non-compliance. So compliance and fighting our mutually exclusive. Nice try though

Nice thing about this Board is that people on the same team can have different opinions and not be censored. My original point was a plan to retain my property (which after 3/1/23 for the time being will be considered contraband) out of state while eliminating any possibility of being penalized. Apparently your ok with retaining your property ( now contraband) concealed in state while being at risk of penalty (however small a risk). So actually we are both pursuing the goal of resisting by different methods. Our ability to resist this tyranny is no different except that there is a risk (however small) that you could become a martyr for the cause -- or the first test case in court -- which wouldn't be bad either. Somebody has got to do it but unfortunately in my present situation it is not possible for me.

 

[Boxcab]

What is the current case against PMF serialization? What is its status? When could we reasonably expect a ruling? Will it need a SCOTUS review?

If we are expecting a final ruling to take a year or three, then that may drive someone's decision to get the serial number done. Especially if the PMF is used publicly... at a range, CCW'd, etc.

If I was willing to wait out the ruling, I'd consider moving the PMFs out of MD, or finding a secure location (sub- teranian or otherwise).

IF I was an owner of a PMF, I would consider all these things.


.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

 

[pcfixer]

MSI did file with the MC 21-22E

Maryland Shall Issue, Inc. v. Montgomery County, Maryland, 8:21-cv-01736 - CourtListener.com

Docket for Maryland Shall Issue, Inc. v. Montgomery County, Maryland, 8:21-cv-01736 — Brought to you by Free Law Project, a non-profit dedicated to creating high quality open legal information.

www.courtlistener.com

It is in here. don't recall and no time to search for that at moment.

Also. here, https://www.mdshooters.com/threads/...021r-05-megathread.265325/page-3#post-6941796

I also believe Delaware case for PMF and WV case for PMF is online .. do some google searching. VanDerStock vs Garland!!

WE WILL WIN! When??

 

[King Chicken]

Nice thing about this Board is that people on the same team can have different opinions and not be censored. My original point was a plan to retain my property (which after 3/1/23 for the time being will be considered contraband) out of state while eliminating any possibility of being penalized. Apparently your ok with retaining your property ( now contraband) concealed in state while being at risk of penalty (however small a risk). So actually we are both pursuing the goal of resisting by different methods. Our ability to resist this tyranny is no different except that there is a risk (however small) that you could become a martyr for the cause -- or the first test case in court -- which wouldn't be bad either. Somebody has got to do it but unfortunately in my present situation it is not possible for me.

Stop being a lemmingwinks.

 

[pcfixer]

MSI did file with the MC 21-22E

Maryland Shall Issue, Inc. v. Montgomery County, Maryland, 8:21-cv-01736 - CourtListener.com

Docket for Maryland Shall Issue, Inc. v. Montgomery County, Maryland, 8:21-cv-01736 — Brought to you by Free Law Project, a non-profit dedicated to creating high quality open legal information.

www.courtlistener.com

It is in here. don't recall and no time to search for that at moment.

Also. here, https://www.mdshooters.com/threads/challenges-to-atf-“ghost-gun”-final-rule-atf-2021r-05-megathread.265325/page-3#post-6941796

I also believe Delaware case for PMF and WV case for PMF is online .. do some google searching. VanDerStock vs Garland!!

WE WILL WIN! When??

Found this!

https://www.marylandshallissue.org/jmain/documents?task=download.send&id=405&catid=4&m=0

you can search for PMF- ghost gun's etc.

 

[PeteW]

If I understand the Federal (ATF) Rule on 80% lowers correctly in most States one may possess an un-serialized lower receiver and need not have it serialized unless it is completed in to a firearm. In Maryland however the ruling elite bans possession of any un-serialized lowers completed or not after the above referenced date; with stiff penalties for non-compliance. Like an obedient subject I've had all of my completed 80%s serialized. Hopefully the Courts will overturn the ATF Rule in the not to distant future. A challenge to MD's law may be a long way off. So in the interim: what to do with the unfinished 80%s you may still own? You could hide them, bury them in the back yard, sell them to an FFL, etc. I for one will not be in possession of any unfinished un-serialized lowers after 3/1/23 -- the extreme penalty is not worth the risk. So what is the legality of transporting them out of state to a state that doesn't have any state restrictions (only the Federal B.S. to worry about). So I would be interested if someone who is versed in the laws of MD and other adjoining states would find this a legal way to preserve your property until the MD law is overturned or you may relocate to a more friendly state in the future?

Yea if you want to keep them unserialized just store them in a free state prior to 3/1. Nothing in MD law says you can't transport them prior to the effective date. Just make sure whatever state you store in, and the ones you drive through are legal.

 

[My Toy]

Stop being a lemmingwinks.

Funny videos.

 

[My Toy]

Yea if you want to keep them unserialized just store them in a free state prior to 3/1. Nothing in MD law says you can't transport them prior to the effective date. Just make sure whatever state you store in, and the ones you drive through are legal.

Hey, this guy understands my proposition. Maybe it is a Westminster thing, Ha, Ha.

 

[pcfixer]

Case 8:21-cv-01736-TDC Document 49 Filed 11/30/22

160. The Second Amendment, as construed by the Supreme Court “‘protects the possession and use of weapons that are in common use at the time’” the Second Amendment was adopted in 1791. Bruen, 142 S.Ct. at 2128, quoting Heller, 554 U.S. at 627 (internal quotes and citation omitted). “Ghost guns,” as defined by Chapter 57, as amended by Bill 4-21 and Bill 21-22E, are simply ordinary long guns and pistols which lack a serial number engraved by a federally licensed manufacturer or importer. Such long guns and pistols without serial numbers are “bearable arms,” and are suitable to be carried “upon the person” ready “for offensive or defensive action in a case of conflict with another person.” Heller, 554 U.S at 582, 584. Because “ghost guns” are simply firearms that lack a serial number, they fall within the “text” of the Second Amendment’s right to “keep and bear Arms.” Under Bruen, it is therefore the County’s burden to demonstrate that “ghost guns” are not in common use and thus may be banned. See Rigby v. Jennings, --- F.Supp.3d ----, 2022 WL 4448220 at *7 (D. Del. 2022). The County made no attempt to do so.

So, Montgomery County Nor the State of Md have failed to demonstrate that any PMF ( 80% rifle or Pistol Poly 80) ghost guns can be banned.

Aposhian v. Barr, et al. ruled ATF lacked authority to issue final rule.​

Case Update to Vanderstok v. Garland: Success in Challenging the Administration's Flawed and Unconstitutional Frame and Receiver Rule​

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/64886994/89/vanderstok-v-garland/

ATF final rules very well be invalidated.

 

[smokey]

Being law abiding and fighting back are not mutually exclusive as you can't seem to grasp. There are 573 replies as of this morning to the thread titled "List of FFL's doing SN engraving". As you go through the thread you see that a significant number of those respondents are complying with what is an unconstitutional law passed by the commies in the MGA. I guess they also are all "lemmings" and "prison bitches" as described earlier. Yes I complied with the law by getting my completed 80%s serialized. My question was how to preserve my property (un-serialized, unfinished) without the risk of penalty under this B.S. new ghost gun law. "Do you think they are going to come door to door looking for them" as expressed earlier -- No I don't at least not now. But if you can't think of ways that your squirreled away un-serialized lowers could be exposed despite your best efforts to hide them you really lack imagination -- major fire in you residence, pissed off acquaintance that knows you posses them and wants to cause you trouble, et.al. Depending on where you live in this sh!t hole State there are anti 2A zealots that would love nothing more than to make an example out of you. Are you gong to actually show your constitutional meddle by taking your un-serialized lower out in public instead of just bloviating -- if not you may be the "prison bitch". Remember when we elected Fat Larry as governor and all rejoiced that things may be starting to change in this State. Well actually we have less R's in the MGA than we had before Fat Larry. Face it our likelihood of changing any laws in this State so you won't have to hide your constitutionally protected property are zip. In this State our only salvation will be the courts (and not MD courts). So in the mean time you can die on that hill if you want (2 years, $2000 per) or explore another way to live to fight another day -- and if you are going to stay in MD the wait is going to be until the SCOTUS decides.

(Hey, don't forget if things go far enough out of kilter in this wonderful State the authorities could get access to credit card records of purchases that were of previously constitutionally legal items. "We were just wondering if you still possess the items you purchased from Polymer80?") I know it sounds far fetched --just saying.

You will either let a tyrannical government come and take them or you won't. It's that simple.