Enfield P14 mystery...help?

[The Saint]

Came across a P14 chambered in 30-06 today and am honestly stumped. I know some of you folks on here are experts...I'll get pics ASAP, but I do not have the rifle with me to right now. It's in phenomenal condition, to start...what stumped me is that the gun has basically NO markings apart from the "ERA" on the receiver and a "1M" or something like that rearwards of the trigger guard on the stock; outside of the P14 stamp on the butt section of stock. No caliber markings; I can't even locate a serial number. It has not been reblued or redone, no import marks, has original volley sights...all checks out apart from the fact there are basically zero, and I do mean zero markings on the gun. I have not stripped it down to deep clean it yet...but I am thoroughly stumped. Pics will help, but anyone have any idea? I mean...I have never seen one without markings...this thing is like a blank. Oh...and a perfect bore.

 

[TheOriginalMexicanBob]

After WWII there were companies…Santa Fe and National Ordnance…that made cast 1903 receivers and used surplus parts to build and sell complete rifles. Something similar could have done here but doing it with a P14 doesn’t make much sense unless they would have lots of surplus parts.

 

[303_enfield]

If it isn't here it's been removed.

 

[303_enfield]

An it wouldn't have caliber markings unless changed or marked by the importer.
All Pattern 14 rifles are .303 British.

 

[303_enfield]

When you get the rifle. Pull the handguard off. If the barrel is the original, it will (should) have the serial number on it (being British issue an all that).

 

[The Saint]

When you get the rifle. Pull the handguard off. If the barrel is the original, it will (should) have the serial number on it (being British issue an all that).

Tomorrow I'm giving it alongside the others a deep clean like I do with all buy-ins...and I'll find out for sure. If someone scrubbed it I can't tell...because the ERA marking is perfectly crisp, but there is no metal removed from under....as if it were never stamped.

 

[Clovis]

My theory on this is we need to keep in mind these rifles were made in the US. "Lunch box" gun comes to mind as the term. It would/could have been brought out of the factory in pieces and assembled at home. The other thought I have is there may have been factory overstock sold to the public or to employees. Not to brag but I have a #4Mark I* Savage in the same situation.

 

[Doco Overboard]

At the time of manufacture the factory was crawling with British inspectors particularly with the Winchesters. A P14 thats been accepted will have the bolt rear,sight leaf and body all serialized together. 303pattern MkI

On the barrel reinforce it will also have a bunch of view and proof marks. The body will also have on its left side property and view/proof marks.

If the rifle is star * marked (Mk I*)it means its been fitted with a bolt 1/10 longer and then the barrel tenon similarly accommodated with a s shaped recess for it to fit. Rifles receiver and butt stock will exhibit the same mark. (1916 man/)
At about 1926 rifles became to be re-designated rifle No 3 mk I or Mk I * dependent on the fitment of the longer bolt.

Early manufactured rifles from ERA usually have volley sights with dial and whats known as the fatso/fatboy stock.
P14 rifles were supplied by the British government to Italy, Romania, Greece and other European countries after the war.

The AG Parker company worked some over for target specific applications, (mine shooting) some were fitted with scopes (T) fine adjustable backsights and the early trials rifles in .276 were plagued with metallic bore fouling,erosion from cordite powders and excessive heat in the chamber.

British armorers found parts interchangeability between the makers difficult, sort of negating the benefit of mass production and compatibility processes with slight inconsistencies found even from the same factories. A p14 thats stocked up correctly and fed good ammo will be one of the most consistent and accurate surplus rifles one could own and shoot.

Fatso stock ERA rifle

 

[John from MD]

British armorers found parts interchangeability between the makers difficult, sort of negating the benefit of mass production and compatibility processes with slight inconsistencies found even from the same factories. A p14 that's stocked up correctly and fed good ammo will be one of the most consistent and accurate surplus rifles one could own and shoot.

Fatso stock ERA rifle

And the fastest bolt action.

 

[The Saint]

When you get the rifle. Pull the handguard off. If the barrel is the original, it will (should) have the serial number on it (being British issue an all that).

At the time of manufacture the factory was crawling with British inspectors particularly with the Winchesters. A P14 thats been accepted will have the bolt rear,sight leaf and body all serialized together. 303pattern MkI

On the barrel reinforce it will also have a bunch of view and proof marks. The body will also have on its left side property and view/proof marks.

If the rifle is star * marked (Mk I*)it means its been fitted with a bolt 1/10 longer and then the barrel tenon similarly accommodated with a s shaped recess for it to fit. Rifles receiver and butt stock will exhibit the same mark. (1916 man/)
At about 1926 rifles became to be re-designated rifle No 3 mk I or Mk I * dependent on the fitment of the longer bolt.

Early manufactured rifles from ERA usually have volley sights with dial and whats known as the fatso/fatboy stock.
P14 rifles were supplied by the British government to Italy, Romania, Greece and other European countries after the war.

The AG Parker company worked some over for target specific applications, (mine shooting) some were fitted with scopes (T) fine adjustable backsights and the early trials rifles in .276 were plagued with metallic bore fouling,erosion from cordite powders and excessive heat in the chamber.

British armorers found parts interchangeability between the makers difficult, sort of negating the benefit of mass production and compatibility processes with slight inconsistencies found even from the same factories. A p14 thats stocked up correctly and fed good ammo will be one of the most consistent and accurate surplus rifles one could own and shoot.

Fatso stock ERA rifle

Pictures attached, now. It was absolutely never stamped. There is no way someone scrubbed this...it's 100% not a refin, either.

 

[303_enfield]

Rifle was scrubbed in India around 1962 during the Indo-Chinese War. These rifles were "remanufactured". All original markings removed from the receiver and barrel, were refinished. Work was done at field workshop level, since none of these weapons carry any Ishapore proof or inspection marks. Most had the original serial restamped. Why do I say this? Well, the Indian property marked stock, the ERA is shallow and the * is as well.
Read India's Enfields by Robert W. Edwards page 44.

The above plus I have 5K in Enfield books.

Me, I'd buy it if under $800.

 

[303_enfield]

Pictures attached, now. It was absolutely never stamped. There is no way someone scrubbed this...it's 100% not a refin, either.

It's 100% refinished, the rifle didn't leave a US factory oil blackened.

 

[303_enfield]

Take the stock disk off and read the backside(front). Then you might see a unit marking.

 

[The Saint]

Rifle was scrubbed in India around 1962 during the Indo-Chinese War. These rifles were "remanufactured". All original markings removed from the receiver and barrel, were refinished. Work was done at field workshop level, since none of these weapons carry any Ishapore proof or inspection marks. Most had the original serial restamped. Why do I say this? Well, the Indian property marked stock, the ERA is shallow and the * is as well.
Read India's Enfields by Robert W. Edwards page 44.

The above plus I have 5K in Enfield books.

Me, I'd buy it if under $800.

Can you scan me the page? I definitely do not have the book. Nothing on disc.

 

[303_enfield]

No scanner but this might work.

 

[303_enfield]

My theory on this is we need to keep in mind these rifles were made in the US. "Lunch box" gun comes to mind as the term. It would/could have been brought out of the factory in pieces and assembled at home. The other thought I have is there may have been factory overstock sold to the public or to employees. Not to brag but I have a #4Mark I* Savage in the same situation.

Nope! Receiver has the * mark. Rifle was modified for the lengthened locking lug. Was done after it left the States. An that rifle is oil blackened, not done at the factory. Then look at the lines, they are rounded, look at the picture of the ERA I posted.

 

[303_enfield]

Does the bolt have a serial number?

 

[babalou]

Love these threads! I just love all the knowledge people have. Friggin awesome

 

[The Saint]

Does the bolt have a serial number?

NOTHING has a serial number. There are none on the entirety of the gun. Also just found out it's 30-06, not .303. I reckon that makes it a M1917.

 

[303_enfield]

Cast the camber! The receiver is for a P14.