Frederick Sheriff and Dealer in Hot Water

[brianns]

I seem to remember when the SAW appeared for rental....

I almost was going to rent the SAW last Friday on 0331 day. But I just used my Uzi. Now I’m not sure it’s still available.

Funny one of the guys there was asking me what would be my next one(MG). I said I really wanted a rifle caliber or belt fed model.

 

[Apd09]

I almost was going to rent the SAW last Friday on 0331 day. But I just used my Uzi. Now I’m not sure it’s still available.

Funny one of the guys there was asking me what would be my next one(MG). I said I really wanted a rifle caliber or belt fed model.

I rented a SAW at a full auto range in Vegas, it was a fun gun to shoot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[lazarus]

Looks like the Frederick Co Sheriff Chuck Jenkins and an owner of the Machine Gun nest are in some hot water with fraudulent schemes to acquire dealer sample machine guns.

Frederick County sheriff and shooting range owner indicted by federal grand jury for scheme to illegally buy machine guns - Maryland Matters

The six-count indictment alleges that the scheme between the men took place over a period of almost seven years.

www.marylandmatters.org

I guess that's why The Machine Gun Nests bank dropped them a week or two ago. I am guessing the ATFs investigation in to them included subpoenas for banking records and the bank dropped them toot sweet.

 

[Afrikeber]

I’ll most Likely will make a major purchase soon at TMGN in support of them.

I also support Sheriff Jenkins, I have yet to be pulled over and harassed with BS pre text stops in Frederick County these past few years I’ve lived here and that says a lot about his leadership.

Montgomery County was the worst for this behavior and my experience living there was that they present themselves as progressives but MCPD was full of bad apples that required me to stick it to them in civil/administrative proceedings.

The latest news on Sheriff Jenkins…..

“At a press conference on Wednesday, sheriff’s office spokesman Todd Wivell said Jenkins plans to stay on the job, and not resign or go on leave.
In a written statement, Jenkins said: “I have been in constant communication with the DOJ and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) for over a year and have been 100% cooperative throughout the course of this investigation. At the advice of my attorney and out of respect for the justice process, I am not providing any comment at this time. I will continue to serve as your Sheriff as this process plays out and fully expect my deputies, correctional officers, and staff to remain the true professionals they are.”

 

[John from MD]

This reminds me of the guy who had the gunshop in Annapolis some years ago. IIRC, him and a couple of other guys started buying MAC 10's and then slowly converting the paperwork into other more expensive machine guns.

They got caught, and I know he served a couple years on house arrest, but don't recall "the rest of the story". Doing illegal stuff with Class III firearms they take pretty seriously.

 

[Atlasarmory]

Checked real quick. Noting about this from 1791. They should be GTG

 

[lazarus]

Whatever it is going on with these guys, its been for for 7 years. Thats a long time to get intel for what the authorities are implying.

The allegation was that the investigation has only been over the last year. I assume that's roughly when the ATF twigged to it. When did the machine gun nest get the SAW?

Demos are one of the things are "at the edges of the law" because there are so many instances where an FFL works with a local department to get them to write a demo letter, because they want to pickup samples for other uses, not because the department actually has an interest in buying any. That is supposed to be the actual use. Not that a department is willing to write a letter and shoot it once or twice so that the FFL can have a machine gun.

I think most of us who are aware of the program/exception know there is a CRAP ton of wink-wink, nudge-nudge that goes on. In this case, it sounds like they pushed it too far.

An M249 is going to be pretty hard to square with the Sheriff's letter saying they are particularly suitable for patrol and police use. Even worse if TMGN and the sheriff can't point to some actual demonstrations done. I think the M249 is likely what is going to sink them. I might be missing something here, but government agencies can own NFA items, but they still are required to justify the need upon request. The ATF still oversees it.

So a department buying destructive devices is probably going to get some close scrutiny. Or a department picking up full autos not suitable for general law enforcement activities.

Same thing with an FFL working with a sample letter. I don't see in the indictment when it says that SAW was purchased, but I am wondering if that either twigged the ATF to look closer, or if Sig or the intermediary reported it specifically to the ATF and that started the investigation.

 

[lazarus]

There was a sheriff somewhere out west that was doing the demo letters, then using the gun store to run shoots where people "rented" the guns to shoot. basically they went to the range, the sheriff charged say 30 bucks a mag, and split the profit with the gun store. the sheriff if I remember right was pocketing the cash

Also this https://www.fox19.com/2020/03/03/addyston-police-chiefs-purchase-machine-guns-drew-feds-attention/

Plenty of examples of chief law enforcement officers dipping into corruption with this. The LEA needs to have an actual interest. It could be one that the FFL generates in the LEA, but it is not supposed to be, "sure, I have no problem writing a letter so they can get a machinegun(s) and go have a gun machine gun shoot as a demonstration". There is supposed to be an actual interest by the LEA in acquiring the MGs. Not a fake interest to help someone out in acquiring them. It does make me wonder if there are some youtubers and CLEOs also falling afoul of this...

 

[4g64loser]

Not knowing the particulars of any agreement between the two persons, I won't comment on them specifically.

To add some color, however, more than one LE group I am aware of has SAWs in their inventory. Not saying that I endorse it but it's a fact that definitely refutes the indictment claim that the saw is suitable only for war.

The core of this comes down to whether there was collusion with intent to violate the law before the fact. Either in knowledge that nobody intended to demonstrate the guns or buy them (enhance the personal collection) or in agreement for compensation (pay for play).

 

[cantstop]

Let's start with IANAL, IIRC there is a carve out in the NFA law for local police to request a dealer to obtain a fully automatic weapon for demonstration purposes. The police agency has to officially make the request, the dealer obtains the weapon and enters it into his books and then the police force gets to borrow the weapon and decide if they want to purchase it. If they return the weapon, the dealer gets to keep it as long as he has his FFL. I'm not sure what disposition of the weapon needs to be after the FFL is allowed to expire.

I'm guessing (Yes GUESSING) the ATF is interpreting that the weapons are being loaned out to non police force personnel and the ATF rule doesn't specifically say this can or cannot be done. So the weaponized ATF is making a ruling that regardless of prior acceptance of this practice they are going to prosecute on a new (DNC driven) ATF interpretation of this rule.

 

[River02]

For those interested--Sheriff Jenkins is scheduled to give an interview on AM 930 WFMD (Frederick local talk radio) this morning--- haven't heard a time yet but the morning talk show goes through 0900. The name of the show is "The Morning News Express"

https://www.wfmd.com/

 

[4g64loser]

Let's start with IANAL, IIRC there is a carve out in the NFA law for local police to request a dealer to obtain a fully automatic weapon for demonstration purposes. The police agency has to officially make the request, the dealer obtains the weapon and enters it into his books and then the police force gets to borrow the weapon and decide if they want to purchase it. If they return the weapon, the dealer gets to keep it as long as he has his FFL. I'm not sure what disposition of the weapon needs to be after the FFL is allowed to expire.

I'm guessing (Yes GUESSING) the ATF is interpreting that the weapons are being loaned out to non police force personnel and the ATF rule doesn't specifically say this can or cannot be done. So the weaponized ATF is making a ruling that regardless of prior acceptance of this practice they are going to prosecute on a new (DNC driven) ATF interpretation of this rule.

The ffl doesn't get to loan it to the cops without an approved transfer form (temporary) or sell it to the cops without an approved transfer form (permanent). The NFA branch is very clear on that. They can, and have, approved temporary transfers between ffl and LEAs for purposes of testing (cop has ffl guns for eval) and repair (ffl has cop guns to work on them).

If the cops want to buy, they typically want "new" guns ordered and with their purchase order this would be allowed. The ffl would get new guns in to transfer to the LEA. The samples would remain in the ffl inventory. Once the ffl gives the atf notice that he is not going to renew his SOT, the post samples can be sold to a manufacturing SOT (the "going out of business sale" exemption).

 

[Sgt6402]

I almost was going to rent the SAW last Friday on 0331 day. But I just used my Uzi. Now I’m not sure it’s still available.

Funny one of the guys there was asking me what would be my next one(MG). I said I really wanted a rifle caliber or belt fed model.

That would not be possible to have rented it on last Friday....... The M249 SAW was confiscated several months ago to almost a year ago, along with several other MG's.

 

[Doco Overboard]

The allegation was that the investigation has only been over the last year. I assume that's roughly when the ATF twigged to it. When did the machine gun nest get the SAW?

Demos are one of the things are "at the edges of the law" because there are so many instances where an FFL works with a local department to get them to write a demo letter, because they want to pickup samples for other uses, not because the department actually has an interest in buying any. That is supposed to be the actual use. Not that a department is willing to write a letter and shoot it once or twice so that the FFL can have a machine gun.

I think most of us who are aware of the program/exception know there is a CRAP ton of wink-wink, nudge-nudge that goes on. In this case, it sounds like they pushed it too far.

An M249 is going to be pretty hard to square with the Sheriff's letter saying they are particularly suitable for patrol and police use. Even worse if TMGN and the sheriff can't point to some actual demonstrations done. I think the M249 is likely what is going to sink them. I might be missing something here, but government agencies can own NFA items, but they still are required to justify the need upon request. The ATF still oversees it.

So a department buying destructive devices is probably going to get some close scrutiny. Or a department picking up full autos not suitable for general law enforcement activities.

Same thing with an FFL working with a sample letter. I don't see in the indictment when it says that SAW was purchased, but I am wondering if that either twigged the ATF to look closer, or if Sig or the intermediary reported it specifically to the ATF and that started the investigation.

They’ll look at things for years before moving on anyone. Agencies do that sort of thing gathering evidence as they go for a whole lot less than weapons violations.
I don’t know anything about saws , letters or nod nod wink wink.
Evidently the Sheriff and owner of that business have some explaining to do.
Could be, the sheriff helped root out some of the behavior for all I know. If he is what he’s perceived to be ,that may be the case.
If that very well not be the case, shame on him and all those involved. Seems to me like a worst case scenario to be in for a staunch 2A supporter.

 

[Sgt6402]

Sorry, I misread number one as "Did he know what happened to them?"

In answer to what happened to the items, only Krop would know.

Bear in mind, the long-running GM was dismissed a while back because Krop didn't like the direction the business was going. It could be that the former GM had a axe to grind over things that didn't seem legit.

There is a lot more to the reason(s) why the Former long time GM left and it does not need to put out into the public.

 

[whistlersmother]

Checked real quick. Noting about this from 1791. They should be GTG

This.

Maybe this is the case that ends the '86 Hughes and possibly a fork into the NFA?

 

[cantstop]

The ffl doesn't get to loan it to the cops without an approved transfer form...

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Brikhaus]

There is a lot more to the reason(s) why the Former long time GM left and it does not need to put out into the public.

Aha, I was telling the XO last night, I thought that it was likely that the arrangement between the sheriff and Krop was tipped to AFT by a former TMGN employee. I'm betting that is them ^^^.

 

[scottyfz6]

Well what surprises me is the stores/cops who do this get caught all the time. Yet there is always another willing to do it, and get caught.

I guess its a well they have never done socialism right, but we will this time type mentality.

 

[4g64loser]

Well what surprises me is the stores/cops who do this get caught all the time. Yet there is always another willing to do it, and get caught.

I guess its a well they have never done socialism right, but we will this time type mentality.

People cheat in their spouses all the time and often get caught. They bungee jump and zipline too, because "it won't happen to me".