GOA Uncovers Fatal Flaw In Pistol Brace Rule...IT'S A TRAP!!!

[Bikebreath]

I'm only the messenger. I don't know for sure if this is the right forum for this. I don't know if this is information is bogus and making a mountain out of a mole hill, but on the surface this sounds mighty important...or at least they do in this video.

 

[sckno3]

good info. reliable sources. thanks for sharing it here.

 

[[Kev308]]

Thanks for posting the video. In a perfect world this is just another reason why this rule will be abolished.

 

[Mr. Ed]

Catch 22? I don't think this rule will survive any legal challenge, but am concerned of the possible damage it might do to otherwise honorable and law abiding citizens in the meantime. Heck, as many as 40 million folks are alleged to have purchased firearms with braces with the full approval of the ATF. Sure, at one point folks weren't supposed to shoulder the brace, but then ATF relaxed that prohibition.

Now, out of the blue, items which are legally owned have become illegal to continue to own in their present state. How TF is that even possible? And the ATF is compelling owners to take action because they changed their collective minds (or lack thereof) probably at the behest of Brandon.

 

[lazarus]

Catch 22? I don't think this rule will survive any legal challenge, but am concerned of the possible damage it might do to otherwise honorable and law abiding citizens in the meantime. Heck, as many as 40 million folks are alleged to have purchased firearms with braces with the full approval of the ATF. Sure, at one point folks weren't supposed to shoulder the brace, but then ATF relaxed that prohibition.

Now, out of the blue, items which are legally owned have become illegal to continue to own in their present state. How TF is that even possible? And the ATF is compelling owners to take action because they changed their collective minds (or lack thereof) probably at the behest of Brandon.

My only real question though, is it really 40 million of us? I am pretty sure the actual figure is an estimated 20-40 million braced pistols. It is still a crap ton that the king is requiring to be registered. But if my supposition is correct, it is likely only about 5-10 million of us based on how many people own multiple. 40 million citizens being screwed is easier to make hay over (1 should be too many, but more voices helps)

 

[outrider58]

As far as this being a trap, it is legal to convert a pistol into a rifle. Where's the trap. You aren't required to present the pistol in the process of building an SBR. When the time comes that the brace is no longer allowed by law, you take the thing off. Most form 1 SBRs begin/began as pistols. AK-47s, AR 15s, Evos, MPXs, etc.

My only real question though, is it really 40 million of us? I am pretty sure the actual figure is an estimated 20-40 million braced pistols. It is still a crap ton that the king is requiring to be registered. But if my supposition is correct, it is likely only about 5-10 million of us based on how many people own multiple. 40 million citizens being screwed is easier to make hay over (1 should be too many, but more voices helps)

Put it this way, if 40 mil have been sold, even if it's only 20 mil owners, there will still be 40 mil applications to process.

 

[ironpony]

Do they want a pic of your SBR (along with Form1 app) before approved?
Then, when they cannot get to the ~20 million Form 1's in 88 days, you are denied. They then have a pic of an illegal firearm sent in with your information?

Seems safe.

 

[5string]

Do they want a pic of your SBR (along with Form1 app) before approved?
Then, when they cannot get to the ~20 million Form 1's in 88 days, you are denied. They then have a pic of an illegal firearm sent in with your information?

Seems safe.

For whatever it's worth, they want a close up of the numbers on the receiver. You are not asked to show the whole firearm.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

I only made it like 6 mins in but frankly I hate these kinds of videos. This is click bait.

First its 88 days on a background check and its auto denied. Ok, well my last form 4 took 366 days! So thats a lot more than 88! So how could that happen without it being denied?????????????
Well because the don't do the background check until they are ready to process your check. So its not like they submit the check and then wait to finish the check. They do the check, complete it and then it goes back in the pile. This is a lot to do about nothing!

Further more, if it is a trap, then legally you are still safe. Its no different then reporting money you make selling drugs on your tax return. If you report money you make selling drugs on your taxes as you are required to do, then your tax return is not admissible and can not be used to help convict you of selling drugs. You have the right to remain quiet and not to incriminate yourself. If the Government forces you to do something, like in this case register the SBR, then they can't use that against you in court. Now they can come take the firearm but any charge will fall to a 5 Amendment violation. This is not hard to figure out.

This is the same as the registration of MGs in 1934 and MGs again in 1968. Same type of thing except in 1968, they actually some actually were illegal at that point. However people said the same crap back then and so a lot of people did not register. Fun fact, if you are actually worried about it, once you send in the form, take the upper off and give it to someone else to store until your form comes back. A SBR is only an SBR when assembled as one as you can drop a 16" upper on it and its no longer a SBR.

Not good info in my opinion...

 

[lazarus]

As far as this being a trap, it is legal to convert a pistol into a rifle. Where's the trap. You aren't required to present the pistol in the process of building an SBR. When the time comes that the brace is no longer allowed by law, you take the thing off. Most form 1 SBRs begin/began as pistols. AK-47s, AR 15s, Evos, MPXs, etc.

Put it this way, if 40 mil have been sold, even if it's only 20 mil owners, there will still be 40 mil applications to process.

Oh, for workloads for the ATF, for sure.

But 40 million people being screwed and complaining, funding lawsuits, etc. is a lot different than if it is 5 million. Just like there aren't 600 million gun owners in the US. Just 600 million+ guns. Heck, even if it was only 250 million gun owners, so much of the legislative BS that is going on wouldn't. It wouldn't even be a conversation.

 

[Docster]

Appreciate the post, following

 

[frozencesium]

I'm assuming GOA and others have law suites drawn up along with requests for a TRO just waiting for the instant it's published.

 

[jrumann59]

I only made it like 6 mins in but frankly I hate these kinds of videos. This is click bait.

First its 88 days on a background check and its auto denied. Ok, well my last form 4 took 366 days! So thats a lot more than 88! So how could that happen without it being denied?????????????
Well because the don't do the background check until they are ready to process your check. So its not like they submit the check and then wait to finish the check. They do the check, complete it and then it goes back in the pile. This is a lot to do about nothing!

Further more, if it is a trap, then legally you are still safe. Its no different then reporting money you make selling drugs on your tax return. If you report money you make selling drugs on your taxes as you are required to do, then your tax return is not admissible and can not be used to help convict you of selling drugs. You have the right to remain quiet and not to incriminate yourself. If the Government forces you to do something, like in this case register the SBR, then they can't use that against you in court. Now they can come take the firearm but any charge will fall to a 5 Amendment violation. This is not hard to figure out.

This is the same as the registration of MGs in 1934 and MGs again in 1968. Same type of thing except in 1968, they actually some actually were illegal at that point. However people said the same crap back then and so a lot of people did not register. Fun fact, if you are actually worried about it, once you send in the form, take the upper off and give it to someone else to store until your form comes back. A SBR is only an SBR when assembled as one as you can drop a 16" upper on it and its no longer a SBR.

Not good info in my opinion...

Background checks can be done at any point of the NFA process most of the time used is Govt Surety of Employment Hours. You saw something similar with W&C permits in MD, many applicants had their background check dates change during the process. The issue will be now how will the ATF handle the background checks of a few million more Form 1 requests on top of what they have now.

 

[1841DNG]

I only made it like 6 mins in but frankly I hate these kinds of videos. This is click bait.

First its 88 days on a background check and its auto denied. Ok, well my last form 4 took 366 days! So thats a lot more than 88! So how could that happen without it being denied?????????????
Well because the don't do the background check until they are ready to process your check. So its not like they submit the check and then wait to finish the check. They do the check, complete it and then it goes back in the pile. This is a lot to do about nothing!

Further more, if it is a trap, then legally you are still safe. Its no different then reporting money you make selling drugs on your tax return. If you report money you make selling drugs on your taxes as you are required to do, then your tax return is not admissible and can not be used to help convict you of selling drugs. You have the right to remain quiet and not to incriminate yourself. If the Government forces you to do something, like in this case register the SBR, then they can't use that against you in court. Now they can come take the firearm but any charge will fall to a 5 Amendment violation. This is not hard to figure out.

This is the same as the registration of MGs in 1934 and MGs again in 1968. Same type of thing except in 1968, they actually some actually were illegal at that point. However people said the same crap back then and so a lot of people did not register. Fun fact, if you are actually worried about it, once you send in the form, take the upper off and give it to someone else to store until your form comes back. A SBR is only an SBR when assembled as one as you can drop a 16" upper on it and its no longer a SBR.

Not good info in my opinion...

I am open to being corrected but this is about specifically 88 days for the backround check portion and not the entire application process.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

Yes, thats what they were saying, 88 days is the max for the background check.

So by the logic, the ATF will dump millions of background checks at once, deny 95% of them and come take your gun. No... that is stupid. They will process the background checks as they can, so they don't exceed 88 days. Sure it will take them years to do it but so what? You have your gun, they have their unprocessed registration, they will do your background check eventually. This is just trying to scare people. They have done amnesties before... and nothing like this happened....

Its already a year wait with tons more applications than they can process in the 3-6 months is use to take. Its never been well below the 88 days limit on the back ground check. This is a whole lot over nothing getting them more clicks and getting more donations in scaring people, IMO.

 

[Bob A]

Is it a trap?

Essentially, you must inform the ATF that you already own a formerly legal firearm, that they have declared to be illegal without their tax stamp.

In essence, you're waiving your 5th Amendment right against self-incrimination. If you trust the government not to take advantage of that waiver, you'll be fine. Or fined, bankrupted by legal fees, and incarcerated.

But Biden's ATF wouldn't do that, would they?

 

[5string]

I only made it like 6 mins in but frankly I hate these kinds of videos. This is click bait.

First its 88 days on a background check and its auto denied. Ok, well my last form 4 took 366 days! So thats a lot more than 88! So how could that happen without it being denied?????????????
Well because the don't do the background check until they are ready to process your check. So its not like they submit the check and then wait to finish the check. They do the check, complete it and then it goes back in the pile. This is a lot to do about nothing!

Further more, if it is a trap, then legally you are still safe. Its no different then reporting money you make selling drugs on your tax return. If you report money you make selling drugs on your taxes as you are required to do, then your tax return is not admissible and can not be used to help convict you of selling drugs. You have the right to remain quiet and not to incriminate yourself. If the Government forces you to do something, like in this case register the SBR, then they can't use that against you in court. Now they can come take the firearm but any charge will fall to a 5 Amendment violation. This is not hard to figure out.

This is the same as the registration of MGs in 1934 and MGs again in 1968. Same type of thing except in 1968, they actually some actually were illegal at that point. However people said the same crap back then and so a lot of people did not register. Fun fact, if you are actually worried about it, once you send in the form, take the upper off and give it to someone else to store until your form comes back. A SBR is only an SBR when assembled as one as you can drop a 16" upper on it and its no longer a SBR.

Not good info in my opinion...

Agree 100%. GOA is a good organization of which I am a member but it's my belief these videos are made with the intent of generating income. One way gets people stirred up so they get out the checkbook and also through hits on the video. More hits = more money.

 

[outrider58]

Yes, thats what they were saying, 88 days is the max for the background check.

So by the logic, the ATF will dump millions of background checks at once, deny 95% of them and come take your gun. No... that is stupid. They will process the background checks as they can, so they don't exceed 88 days. Sure it will take them years to do it but so what? You have your gun, they have their unprocessed registration, they will do your background check eventually. This is just trying to scare people. They have done amnesties before... and nothing like this happened....

Its already a year wait with tons more applications than they can process in the 3-6 months is use to take. Its never been well below the 88 days limit on the back ground check. This is a whole lot over nothing getting them more clicks and getting more donations in scaring people, IMO.

You outlasted me.

 

[calicojack]

You outlasted me.

I'm with Outrider here. This is just sensationalism. Also I think IMBLITZVT explained this well.

Now for me personally, I have one AR pistol that is only a pistol because of the 29" OAL requirement (all others are registered SBR's); I actually do not like using a brace. I have a solution to meet the OAL, so I am putting in a Form 1. I installed a pistol tube in the mean time. I will pay the $200. I don't care if there is a free stamp for a brace - I don't want the brace. I want a stock.

 

[calicojack]

Is it a trap?

Essentially, you must inform the ATF that you already own a formerly legal firearm, that they have declared to be illegal without their tax stamp.

So it's illegal right now, this second? I don't think so. It becomes illegal in 120 days after the ruling is official. Assuming it does not get struck down.