Gun Control and Abortion

[TH-X15]

http://www.sobran.com/articles/tyranny.shtml

How Tyranny Came to America

"Take abortion. Set aside your own views and feelings about it. Is it really possible that, as the Supreme Court in effect said, all the abortion laws of all 50 states — no matter how restrictive, no matter how permissive — had always been unconstitutional? Not only that, but no previous Court, no justice on any Court in all our history — not Marshall, not Story, not Taney, not Holmes, not Hughes, not Frankfurter, not even Warren — had ever been recorded as doubting the constitutionality of those laws. Everyone had always taken it for granted that the states had every right to enact them.

Are we supposed to believe, in all seriousness, that the Court’s ruling in Roe v. Wade was a response to the text of the Constitution, the discernment of a meaning that had eluded all its predecessors, rather than an enactment of the current liberal agenda? Come now."

 

[AliasNeo07]

Really? At the end of the day the number of innocent unborn lives mercilessly "terminated" is utterly incidental to you?

The fact is that if the government can pretends that rights that don't exist, such as the right to terminate an unborn child, actually do, then it has the ability to pretend that rights that do exist, such as the right to keep and bear arms, actually don't.
If government has the Orwellian power and authority to redefine marriage and thus equate males sodomizing each other to the bond between a husband and wife, then the State can also redefine "assault weapon" to mean absolutely anything.

Furthermore most polls show Americans in support of a new AWB and a ban on standard issue magazines.

So, again, this is simply blowback from the moronic and untenable idea that supporting the fanatical leftist social agenda of Obama and Feinstein would be the path to freedom and liberty.

Well the core of your argument is that abortion is murder. Most people do not agree. But this wasnt supposed to be a debate about abortion. I was just saying that the hearings at annapolis might not be the time to compare abortion to the 2A. For all our sakes. Just my opinion.

Well, since you're the smartest of all of us and know how we should do everything, let's just put you in charge.

I never said or suggested any such thing. As usual you contribute nothing of value to the discussion. Go troll elsewhere.

 

[hippygeek]

You know, regardless of what you think about abortion, I think there are some similarities in terms of the tactics used to restrict guns and abortion. For example, there's a ton of liberal outrage over tactics in Mississippi to shutdown the state's only abortion clinic by making it too difficult for them to comply with state laws:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/26/mississippi-abortion-clinic_n_2558320.html

Basically, it's the same tactic O'Malley & Co. want to do with firearms. Let's add so much BS to the purchase and ownership process that people won't bother doing it. Let's add a ton of red tape to dealers to drive them out of business.

 

[md123]

Sounds like no one planned on wading into those waters.

Let's all agree to focus on February 6th and then after we squash this bill, we can debate this, optics, lubes, DI vs piston, whatever!!!

 

[bobnieder]

I am going to Annapolis for one reason. To stand together with others who care enough what happens concerning the proposed gun control legislation. If we show up in enough numbers to change the outcome, then, to the extent that we have altered the outcome, that's how much we have succeeded. We need to make a major shift in the outcome in order to consider ourselves successful. We will not do this by keeping a low profile, trying to bend over backwards to be inoffensive. We will be successful by, yes, being neat, clean, and well-dressed, but without co-opting the passion that has brought us here. I will not deny my passionate commitment to the basic right to lfe. It is too much of a piece with the same passion that would lay down my life for my family or friends or even people I do not know whose lives are threatened. I may not draw attention to it if it is not necessary, but I will not allow a self-appointed arbiter of what is correct warn me not to let my convictions leak out and possibly distract the pure "pro 2A" tone of the 2/6/13 event. Guess what, there will be thousands of people driven by hundreds of reasons to make the choice to be there. We are who we are, and we will speak from our hearts, and if that isn't enough, then God help us.

 

[DCSCO]

If I hear that argument one more time I'm going to scream.

"These people claim to care about the children so they want to resteict guns but how many children are killed every day by abortion?"

It's a specious argument at best. I personally think it's ridiculous.

But my point is please don't come to Annapolis with this or other similar arguments. In general you would alienate 50-60% of your audience. In MD the percentage is much, much higher.

I've seen this argument a lot. Just something to think about.

So first you insult then you dictate. I hope your not speaking.

 

[Infantry23]

We can't be divided over this. Nothing further on that point.

I just hope that the same enthusiasm is shown for the protection of life from birth as well as conception. Remember, politicians can also receive calls, emails, and letters regarding your views (pro or con) on abortion and right-to-life issues.

 

[Schwabe]

Been here longer than you. And the facts are that I never claimed to be speaking for all gun owners, and that my previous points are accurate. So many gun owners foolishly and childishly have believed that their support for the militant leftist social agenda of Boxer, Obama, Feinstein, Schumer, and Cuomo, would not have blowback. And the very fact that you out of sheer gross ignorance attribute the right to life as "a religious interpretation of the Constitution" rather evidences that you yourself adhere to the batshit looney tunes social agenda set out by Feinstein and Obama. Congrats mate.

Wow absolutely ignorant post. YOU DO NOT EVEN KNOW MY POSITION ON ABORTION.
I am not your mate nor do I support any leftist agenda. I believe that what I believe in is NONE of your business and what you believe in is not my business. I especialy believe in you not being able to tell me what I should or should not believe in. Social issues are absoutely not Government's business. What you do in your home is between you and your mate, your church and god if you want. That is it. As soon as we involve Government we have what we have now - a law trying to cover a myriad of different situations amongst hundred of millions of people.

It doesn't matter when you signed up. With a post count of under a hundred you obviously have not participated in the discussions on this board to this matter. They are at best deeply devisive. And of course the religious zealots have to start with the name calling and use of derogatory language against anybody who does not follow in lock step their twisted believes. Only to turn around in the next thread on how we all have to bond together to over throw this avalanche of new gun controls.

You guys are funny, it is all the leftist agenda's fault - no, all it takes is an uncompromising religious right zealot to blow everything to smithereens. All the left has to do is get you hot on something and you pull your gun and shoot yourself in both feet. When you lost the race you blame the left for their propaganda. You may not have followed the most recent elections but the BATSHIT crazies are on the right. The ones who proclaim publically that even abortions of rape victims are illegal. First you have to WIN than you can come out with batshit crazy stuff.

Nice divide created, just could not focus on ONE issue at hand, had to throw out the entire program, nice way to hope for open ears in Annapolis.

I'l be there both days but I make sure not to mingle, people who think they know better by which values I should live my life give me the creeps, whether from the left or from the right.

 

[Splitter]

You know, regardless of what you think about abortion, I think there are some similarities in terms of the tactics used to restrict guns and abortion. For example, there's a ton of liberal outrage over tactics in Mississippi to shutdown the state's only abortion clinic by making it too difficult for them to comply with state laws:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/26/mississippi-abortion-clinic_n_2558320.html

Basically, it's the same tactic O'Malley & Co. want to do with firearms. Let's add so much BS to the purchase and ownership process that people won't bother doing it. Let's add a ton of red tape to dealers to drive them out of business.

This! There are many parallels in the abortion debate and the 2A debate. The exception is that one right is acknowledged directly in the Constitution and the other is inferred via the 4th amendment.

The truth is, anti abortion forces have used the incremental approach to get their way despite the Roe v. Wade ruling. In return, the pro abortion side has become intransigent even where "reasonable" restrictions are supported by the vast majority (ban on elective late term abortions).

Why do we oppose things like eliminating face to face sales with no background checks? Because we know that is a step toward a nationalise gun registry. I think the majority of people support background checks on all firearm sales, but we find ourselves in opposition to this "reasonable" restriction because we know where it will lead (yes, there are other factors, but most of us can agree that eliminating the "loophole" is necessary for a national gun registry and therefore must be opposed).

There may come a day when most Americans oppose abortion again. What will protect the right inferred from the 4th amendment then? Those people need to be reminded that the Constitution protects those in the minority opinion. Today, we find ourselves in the minority on some gun issues. Tomorrow, they may find themselves in the minority on abortion issues.

Note: you don't have to be on one side or the other on abortion to see the correlation. It even helps to set aside personal opinion to see it.

Splitter

 

[clandestine]

Typical post from the O.P. complaining about people pointing out the hypocrisy of the Democratic Party and Liberals.

No one is going to bring this up in Annapolis, but it will be talked about still. The truth hurts libtards.

They put animal life over human life, celebrate kiling the unborn, think child molesters can be reformed, oppose the death penalty, force Christians to be part of things they oppose, supports taxing/stealing people hard earned wages to give to pieces of shit that dont work, and strips people of their right to defend themselves.

Funny people think an innocent humans life means nothing because it dosent have a birth certificate eh?

 

[clandestine]

We can't be divided over this. Nothing further on that point.

I just hope that the same enthusiasm is shown for the protection of life from birth as well as conception. Remember, politicians can also receive calls, emails, and letters regarding your views (pro or con) on abortion and right-to-life issues.

Its why the O.P. started the thread a week before the hearings. Get people who were unified for a month to start fighting right before the main event.

 

[clandestine]

I never said or suggested any such thing. As usual you contribute nothing of value to the discussion. Go troll elsewhere.

Actually he contributes much more than you. Good try though.

 

[bobnieder]

Thanks, Clandestine!

Good insights!

 

[HardHatMan]

If I hear that argument one more time I'm going to scream.

"These people claim to care about the children so they want to resteict guns but how many children are killed every day by abortion?"

It's a specious argument at best. I personally think it's ridiculous.

But my point is please don't come to Annapolis with this or other similar arguments. In general you would alienate 50-60% of your audience. In MD the percentage is much, much higher.

I've seen this argument a lot. Just something to think about.

The argument shows the hypocrisy of the left. They support a woman ending a life because its her choice, but they preach safety for children as a reason to pass more gun control? How does this make any sense at all? Why don't you defend your position instead of just calling the argument ridiculous then scurrying off?

 

[marte616]

I am going to Annapolis for one reason. To stand together with others who care enough what happens concerning the proposed gun control legislation. If we show up in enough numbers to change the outcome, then, to the extent that we have altered the outcome, that's how much we have succeeded. We need to make a major shift in the outcome in order to consider ourselves successful. We will not do this by keeping a low profile, trying to bend over backwards to be inoffensive. We will be successful by, yes, being neat, clean, and well-dressed, but without co-opting the passion that has brought us here. I will not deny my passionate commitment to the basic right to lfe. It is too much of a piece with the same passion that would lay down my life for my family or friends or even people I do not know whose lives are threatened. I may not draw attention to it if it is not necessary, but I will not allow a self-appointed arbiter of what is correct warn me not to let my convictions leak out and possibly distract the pure "pro 2A" tone of the 2/6/13 event. Guess what, there will be thousands of people driven by hundreds of reasons to make the choice to be there. We are who we are, and we will speak from our hearts, and if that isn't enough, then God help us.

 

[clandestine]

The argument shows the hypocrisy of the left. They support a woman ending a life because its her choice, but they preach safety for children as a reason to pass more gun control? How does this make any sense at all? Why don't you defend your position instead of just calling the argument ridiculous then scurrying off?

The left also would strip a Rape Victim of her right to STOP a Rape too. The Left's answer is simply to terminate unwanted life instead of ending a rapists life before the rape happens.

Rapists should get the death penalty but liberals would argue against that too.

 

[ridethemessiah]

Not the government's place to regulate morality, or guns.

 

[clandestine]

Thanks, Clandestine!

Good insights!

Thankyou Bob. It would have been nice if the O.P. had NOT done this a week before the 6th, but its Modus Operandi for the Left.

It takes a real piece of work to do something like this when the forum has been so unified.

 

[bobnieder]

Yeah, and at the same time, working in a guilt trip that if it fails it's our fault because we have convictions. Very de-motivating.

But we will be there and we will be a unified voice of reason and sanity!

 

[clandestine]

Yeah, and at the same time, working in a guilt trip that if it fails it's our fault because we have convictions. Very de-motivating.

But we will be there and we will be a unified voice of reason and sanity!

I will be there too. Hopefully I get to shake many fellow Patriots hands.