HB 28 - Vehicle Laws - Hidden Compartments - Prohibition and Penalties

[circadia]

I have spoken to the Delegate and this targets contraband and hiding persons.

This does not affect lawful containers used for lawful purposes (i.e. a hidden safe for a jeweler carrying money/merchandise, a CCW holder leaving his firearm in a lock box, etc.)

This also does not expand probable cause any further than it already exists with regards to hidden compartments. If one is noticed by a properly trained LEO, he will then start asking questions about it. If it is for legal purposes, again there is no issue.

Except that it does because is it hinges on design and intent:

DESIGNED AND INTENDED TO BE USED TO CONCEAL OR PREVENT THE DISCOVERY OF A PERSON OR CONTRABAND.​

A secret compartment in your vehicle could be used to hide legal possessions or contraband. So does an officer know what the compartment was designed for? And how is intent determined?

I believe the delegate's intentions are good, but this bill is dangerously vague.

This is exactly why we do not trust anything that comes out of Annapolis. A law can have all the good intentions in the world of the person that proposed it, but the rest of the idiots there & some in the state police can & will change it to fit their agenda.

Exactly. A good bill wouldn't require us to have faith that it would be implemented as intended.

 

[dblas]

Except that it does because is it hinges on design and intent:

DESIGNED AND INTENDED TO BE USED TO CONCEAL OR PREVENT THE DISCOVERY OF A PERSON OR CONTRABAND.​

Contraband is generally understood as an ILLEGAL item.

A secret compartment in your vehicle could be used to hide legal possessions or contraband. So does an officer know what the compartment was designed for? And how is intent determined?

See the comment above about and officer asking questions to determine what it was designed for. If you have a legal reason (see my examples) then you should have no issues.

I believe the delegate's intentions are good, but this bill is dangerously vague.

Exactly. A good bill wouldn't require us to have faith that it would be implemented as intended.

So you are painting all LEOs as unable to implement a law as written? Or did I read that wrong?

My suggestion is to call the Delegate and perhaps suggest he insert the word "Illegal" before contraband. But then again, this is just me, when I hear the word contraband, I already think illegal.

 

[Rack&Roll]

Think about it.

Do you suddenly get the feeling that you would now have to have a "Good & Substantial Reason" that will explain a hidden compartment in your vehicle?

Having to report to government agents with your G&S plans--how's that workin' out for people who feel they know perfectly well what is in their own best interests?

You modify the interior of your vehicle to suit your own needs and there's a chance you will be held on the roadside by a govt. agent for an unscheduled conversation about your activities, your interests, or hobbies?

Do you think you can leave if you choose not to talk about your activities, your interests, or your hobbies?

If you decide to try to explain, what is the chance that you will not be believed?

How about a pre-approved HCL? A Hidden Compartment License from a MD registry that will allow you to bypass the pesky "explanation" conversations on the roadside.

Show your HCL and you can be on your way to work, to that wedding, to that movie?

 

[ezliving]

All this discussion of hypotheticals, rationalizations and justifications. Talk to the guy who lost his car in Ohio by a similar law. Where do you think the Delegate got his bright idea from?

It's a bad bill. Period. Kill it.

 

[pbharvey]

You don't need a secret compartment to hide an illegal immigrant or undocumented worker or whatever this particular class of legal illegal people group is called. They can be found in any school, hospital emergency room, construction site, restaurant, and DMV. Go there and round them up and then release them because that's what's going to happen to the little person in the secret compartment anyway.

 

[redeemed.man]

You don't need a secret compartment to hide an illegal immigrant or undocumented worker or whatever this particular class of legal illegal people group is called. They can be found in any school, hospital emergency room, construction site, restaurant, and DMV. Go there and round them up and then release them because that's what's going to happen to the little person in the secret compartment anyway.

Agreed. So much time is wasted in Annapolis writing laws against criminal activities that are largely unenforceable because judges won't incarcerate and prosecutors won't prosecute. This is another one of those bills and there are far too MANY already! The targets of this law are all likely repeat offenders. The best way to prevent recidivism is to simply lock people up (this means prosecute them and make them serve the sentence behind bars) and keep them off the streets so they cannot continue to commit crime. Our Delegates truly do not understand this concept.

Do I trust LEO's to enforce this theoretical law properly and not use it as an opportunity to violate rights? No! The problem is that most LEO's probably will use it properly but enough will use it to violate the rights of the law abiding that it will be a bad law despite it's honorable intentions.

Maybe it is time to let illegals fight our fight for us. Our time may be best served by alerting Casa de Maryland to the bill. There is no way that they will not flood Annapolis with calls, letters, emails, etc. fighting this clearly "racist" (in their mind) bill. How dare anyone bring up compartments for hiding people! That is so NOT politically correct.

 

[Mr H]

Just a reminder of what we get when we don't keep a foot on their throats...

Incrementalism, thy name is Maryland.

 

[redeemed.man]

I must admit I am surprised by those that either defend this bill or fail to see this as a gateway to infringement. I again ask would you be okay if the same law was written for your home or how about for your pants as opposed to your car?

This bill

 

[dist1646]

How can you make an illegal act more illegal? By passing more laws!

 

[hacktracker]

Why do politicians feel the need to leave their mark?

This bill sucks and should have never seen the light of day.

How about striking a few thousand laws OFF the books?

If you go back far enough, just about anything you do is illegal.

 

[redeemed.man]

If we need any new laws they should be created to protect and recognize the RIGHTS of the law abiding. There are enough laws criminalizing behavior on the books already. We don't effectively enforce what we have and because of that liberals feel the need to continually chip away at the last few freedoms in existence.

 

[dblas]

I'm done, since all anyone wants to do is complain, instead of DO SOMETHING about their concerns. To date, since this thread opened, the Delegate has gotten exactly 4 district calls about this.

It's really simple, if you didn't vote, you have nothing what so ever to complain about with regards to your representation.

If you don't contact either your delegate, the delegates on the committee or even the delegate the sponsored the bill, you have absolutely nothing to complain about with regards to the bill. Make a phone call or send an e-mail, then you can bitch.

Speak up or shut up, it really is that simple.

 

[tball]

Bye Bye 4th Amendment! You can count the number of legislators who know the Constitution on one hand.

 

[rwbow1969]

HB 28 - Vehicle Laws - Hidden Compartments - Prohibition and Penalties
http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2014RS/bills/hb/hb0028f.pdf.

This will be in House Judiciary on Jan. 29th. You can do all the bitchin' you want on here but, will you go the extra step and either contact the Delegate, visit him in his office and or attend the Judiciary on the 29th. It really is that simple. Computer commando or the real deal.

I plan on contacting him and visiting him in his office. I may also go down on the 28th and 29th. There are a lot of bills being heard that day.

 

[Brooklyn]

HB 28 - Vehicle Laws - Hidden Compartments - Prohibition and Penalties
http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2014RS/bills/hb/hb0028f.pdf.

This will be in House Judiciary on Jan. 29th. You can do all the bitchin' you want on here but, will you go the extra step and either contact the Delegate, visit him in his office and or attend the Judiciary on the 29th. It really is that simple. Computer commando or the real deal.

I plan on contacting him and visiting him in his office. I may also go down on the 28th and 29th. There are a lot of bills being heard that day.

10-4.

 

[redeemed.man]

I'm done, since all anyone wants to do is complain, instead of DO SOMETHING about their concerns. To date, since this thread opened, the Delegate has gotten exactly 4 district calls about this.

It's really simple, if you didn't vote, you have nothing what so ever to complain about with regards to your representation.

If you don't contact either your delegate, the delegates on the committee or even the delegate the sponsored the bill, you have absolutely nothing to complain about with regards to the bill. Make a phone call or send an e-mail, then you can bitch.

Speak up or shut up, it really is that simple.

I am a bit troubled with your response. I already indicated I would be contacting the Delegate and have done so. I voted and will vote in the future. I have spoken up and will continue to do so. I will not shut up because someone believes I should blindly support a bill by a Delegate who has supported the 2A in the past. If this bill sucks, it sucks. It is not a slap at the Delegate or any member on here. If any member of the General Assembly who happens to be a 2A supporter proposes bad legislation they need to know about it. We cannot give them a pass. No politician gets a gold star just for being a 2A supporter as they have taken an oath to support it despite the fact that many fail to do so in MD.

 

[Marylandfisherman]

I only buy and drive used vehicles. What if, in my initial inspection, and subsequent use and clean up, I miss some form of "hidden compartment" that has some arbitrary item(like rubber bands, cash, or zip-lock bags) that is then found, under whatever guise, by LE? I am not talking about drugs/residue/Mexican baby/"real" contraband. Just something otherwise innocuous.

How do I prove that I didn't know about said compartment? How do you dis-prove something like that?

Stinks to high heaven...

 

[Gryphon]

I'm done, since all anyone wants to do is complain, instead of DO SOMETHING about their concerns. To date, since this thread opened, the Delegate has gotten exactly 4 district calls about this.

It's really simple, if you didn't vote, you have nothing what so ever to complain about with regards to your representation.

If you don't contact either your delegate, the delegates on the committee or even the delegate the sponsored the bill, you have absolutely nothing to complain about with regards to the bill. Make a phone call or send an e-mail, then you can bitch.

Speak up or shut up, it really is that simple.

I don't know the Delegate and I am not in his District. Nevertheless, I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he is a good guy and will uphold his Oath and the US Constitution. BUT, I won't be persuaded by his staff that he can't make the correct principled decision all on his own, and with out MDS lighting up his switchboard. That's nothing more than a cop out! I call BS. Basically DBLAS is saying if you don't call and bitch you have no reason to complain that his boss didn't do the principled thing! Stop looking for an excuse for your boss DBLAS, and just tell him to do the right thing!

 

[gatopolis11]

The problem is that prosecution will not always stop at those with nefarious purposes. This is the kind of thing that has the potential to bite a lot of good people. It is already illegal to transport narcotics and all kinds of other things. Why do we need to make it "more illegal" to put them in a hidden compartment? Will it make criminals less likely to put that kilo of heroin in their car? It serves no useful purpose.

Agreed

 

[redeemed.man]

Email to McDermott

Delegate McDermott,

We are registered voters but we do not live in your district. We write to you to express our concern with the bill you have proposed known as HB 28. We feel that this bill is ripe for abuse despite the fact that you clearly have good intentions. While most law enforcement officers will respect the need for probable cause prior to initiating a vehicle search too many will not and do not already. There is a great deal of discretion that will be left up to individual officers to decide what is considered possible evidence of illegal past use of the hidden compartment. We would ask you to consider in your mind how this bill would play out if the hidden compartment was in your home or better yet in your pants. if your bill passes the invasion of our home or clothing with a similar law will not be far off. It would seem ridiculous but we caution you that this is a very slippery slope and is completely unnecessary. Contraband by its very nature is already illegal and the discovery of contraband during a justified search already has consequences up to and including forfeiture of a vehicle. Your bill because of the wide discretion given to individual officers could result in the seizure of a law abiding tax payers vehicle because a teenage family member got creative in stashing his marijuana seeds. We are as anti drug as they come but a taxpayer shouldn't be at risk of losing his vehicle because some kid leaves marijuana seeds in a hidden compartment in the car. The same could happen with a household employee who leaves their Xanax prescription in their bosses car. The "victim" of your law in these cases could face incarceration in addition to the possible forfeiture of their vehicle. I am sure that is not what you want to happen but you won't be the one enforcing the law on the side of the road. You should understand that it will not be enforced equally across the board despite your good intentions. A judge may declare someone in these examples to be innocent but at what expense? The judge may also find an innocent man guilty, are you prepared to live with that? I would suggest we focus our efforts on mandatory sentences for drug, gun, and human traffickers. Recidivism remains high in our state because we don't actively and aggressively prosecute and incarcerate criminals. Far too often cases are not prosecuted or are plea bargained and these criminals are back on the streets again committing additional crimes. We would gladly support a bill requiring mandatory minimum sentences for drug, gun, and human trafficking. We would gladly support a bill mandating increased training for law enforcement in the area of locating hidden compartments. To prosecute someone and possibly seize a vehicle for maybe, possibly, at some time in the past using a hidden compartment for an illegal reason is really a bad idea. We urge you to rethink your bill and respectfully request that you focus on enforcing the laws on the books already while respecting the freedoms of the taxpayers of Maryland.

Mr. & Mrs. __________