"How these defensive gun uses could land you in prison" - CCW scenario training with Colion Noir

[sclag22]

With many people getting ready to take on the responsibility of carrying a firearm now, there is definitely a lot to consider. Thought this was a pretty interesting video, and definitely gives you something to think about. Thoughts? Commentary based on personal experience?

Also, I'd love to be able to do simulation training like this if anyone knows a good place for doing so.

 

[RoadDawg]

Not to be a contrarian… but…

Did they also do the video that tells you how failing to defend yourself could end up landing you in the grave?

Yes, folks need to know this is not a game with water pistols where everyone gets a napkin to dry off with. And they should avail themselves of training… both legal and tactical. But some of the things they say in this video seem to be strongly geared to discouraging folks from doing anything.

Hesitation at just the wrong time is just as bad as acting too quickly. Choosing to be armed for defensive purposes, is a very important choice. One should make certain that they have the training and the metal to do what’s necessary… and the knowledge to know when, or even IF to do it.

 

[Blaster229]

So much to talk about. Cannot cover everything in a thread.
I've done many SIMS scenarios like these and they become shit shows.
Many people shoot when they don't have to.
One thing tactically I've found is that many people draw fast and stand up to take a shot or shoot when they don't have to.
There's much to gain from doing a slow stealthy draw while sitting down and assessing the situation first. You can always shoot while sitting.
The video was good and thought provoking for sure.

Let's say you walk into a store and 1 guy is pointing a gun at another?
Maybe you think he's going to shoot, so you shoot him first defending the 3rd party. But you, standing to the left, didn't see the knife in his right hand.
Cool, thoughtful heads need to prevail in these moments. You could walk away from that scenario just as fast as you walked into it.

A lot of scenarios end up as blue on blue.
Anyway again, too much to get into on a thread.

There used to be a company that did SIMS but they went out of business.
It's very expensive endeavor unless you have a current business with capitol that can support it.

I think Cindy's Hot Shots in Glen Burnie if trying to get something like this set up.

 

[sclag22]

Not to be a contrarian… but…

Did they also do the video that tells you how failing to defend yourself could end up landing you in the grave?

Yes, folks need to know this is not a game with water pistols where everyone gets a napkin to dry off with. And they should avail themselves of training… both legal and tactical. But some of the things they say in this video seem to be strongly geared to discouraging folks from doing anything.

Hesitation at just the wrong time is just as bad as acting too quickly. Choosing to be armed for defensive purposes, is a very important choice. One should make certain that they have the training and the metal to do what’s necessary… and the knowledge to know when, or even IF to do it.

I agree for sure. My wife was particularly vocal in our conversation about that exact thing. Personally, I think that this video was meant to make sure you understand and are in the right headspace to know that if you decide to pull the trigger, even if fully justified, it's possible there's some schmuck on the other side that's just going to try and make your life hell. I reminded her that me and the kiddos prefer her to be alive... We can figure out the rest.

Blaster, I know it's a lot for one thread, I was just trying to get tidbits of insight and knowledge from people like you who have trained for and or seen the shtf and hopefully create a thought provoking, valuable resource for the mds folks deciding to carry, over time. A lot of little things can really add up over time .

A lot of good info in both of your posts RD and Blaster, thank you!

 

[4g64loser]

If you want to work situations such as this, you can spend a buttload of money on a trip to a facility that is set up for FX munition (Simunition) or other marking system use. Those systems aren't cheap and you need a building/environment that permits their use. This is the best but most expensive option.

Hybrid option would be buying your own training weapons because you have a friend who wants to do this too and one of you has a crappy old barn or other environment where marking systems won't be a problem. Make sure you use protective equipment and observe any minimum range warnings that accompany your marking cartridges.

On a more practical level, buy a couple of blue guns and a rubber knife or two. Find two or three like minded people, preferably at least one or two with a bit of experience. Meet up regularly and each person is tasked with bringing a number of briefs (not underwear). Each brief consists of a simple scenario and two sets (or more, if more players) of instructions which are given individually to each player. Many, if not most, will result in no enjoin. Any persons who aren't players are observers. Interactions are observed and decisions are critiqued after each scenario.

 

[Park ranger]

Can we acknowledge the guy got caught banging his GF/wife sister. Lol

 

[Blaster229]

Can we acknowledge the guy got caught banging his GF/wife sister. Lol

Made me feel uneasy. LOL

 

[Afrikeber]

This brings up a good point for training as a wear and carry citizen. Built elaborate shoot houses for the military that were used by special operations and military security for their training. Would love to practice and train in one of those as a civilian nearby.

 

[teratos]

This brings up a good point for training as a wear and carry citizen. Built elaborate shoot houses for the military that were used by special operations and military security for their training. Would love to practice and train in one of those as a civilian nearby.

We should do flash mob force on force training with sims in malls.

 

[Blaster229]

This brings up a good point for training as a wear and carry citizen. Built elaborate shoot houses for the military that were used by special operations and military security for their training. Would love to practice and train in one of those as a civilian nearby.

I've been in AA counties plenty of times. We've used abandoned schools and other buildings throughout the state too.
FBI built a nice one for Frederick PD at their range. Actually, they picked up the tab for the whole range because they use it as well.

 

[Nosce Hostem]

Did they also do the video that tells you how failing to defend yourself could end up landing you in the grave?

Just like that saying they drilled into our heads on my second deployment when the ROE changed dramatically

“Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6”

 

[Harrys]

I have gone through what we called judgement shooting. Basically it was a video setup and you stand in front of it. A senario pops on a screen about possible shooting and possible hostage. They had many scenarios. The guns used were actual 40 calibers with a plastic bullet head. When you shot your gun the plastic bullet would hit the screen and it would show your accuracy and if you made the right decision. They had real life back ground noise and everything was life like. One scenareo a guy was running in front of you and your weapon was drawn. He reached into his jacket and pulled out what appeared to be a gun and most people shot him. However, he was pulling out his badge wrong judgement you had about 3 seconds to make a decision.

Just because someone has an HQL and a CCW does not make them ready to use their gun. I think as part of the HQL/CCW everyone should see a video like the one posted if you do not have military/police training. We all know in MD a bone head will do the wrong thing and the bigger bone heads will use it as another excuse to infringe on our 2A rights.

 

[Blaster229]

I have gone through what we called judgement shooting. Basically it was a video setup and you stand in front of it. A senario pops on a screen about possible shooting and possible hostage. They had many scenarios. The guns used were actual 40 calibers with a plastic bullet head. When you shot your gun the plastic bullet would hit the screen and it would show your accuracy and if you made the right decision. They had real life back ground noise and everything was life like. One scenareo a guy was running in front of you and your weapon was drawn. He reached into his jacket and pulled out what appeared to be a gun and most people shot him. However, he was pulling out his badge wrong judgement you had about 3 seconds to make a decision.

Just because someone has an HQL and a CCW does not make them ready to use their gun. I think as part of the HQL/CCW everyone should see a video like the one posted if you do not have military/police training. We all know in MD a bone head will do the wrong thing and the bigger bone heads will use it as another excuse to infringe on our 2A rights.

Sounds like the early FATS system. Fire Arms Training Simulator. Had a CO2 operated blowback system for the slide. But this didn't shoot a projectile. One scenario I remember is a guy coming out from behind a dumpster at you with a hard rake. LOL BLAMMO! He gets it.
One thing this system did help with is movement. They could actually judge your go/no go if you created distance, moved, etc... The thing was pretty primitive. This must have been late 90's I wanna say.

Every keeps parroting "military training". I can only speak for when I was in the infantry 84-88, we got ZERO training as far as scenarios/mindset/tactics ,etc..... You don't want a 1984-1988 me carrying a pistol in public and getting into a scenario.
Maybe things changed in 1989 LOL

 

[pbharvey]

Solid info in this lecture

 

[Bikebreath]

We should do flash mob force on force training with sims in malls.

I'm in!



(we are so dead)

 

[Harrys]

Sounds like the early FATS system. Fire Arms Training Simulator. Had a CO2 operated blowback system for the slide. But this didn't shoot a projectile. One scenario I remember is a guy coming out from behind a dumpster at you with a hard rake. LOL BLAMMO! He gets it.
One thing this system did help with is movement. They could actually judge your go/no go if you created distance, moved, etc... The thing was pretty primitive. This must have been late 90's I wanna say.

Every keeps parroting "military training". I can only speak for when I was in the infantry 84-88, we got ZERO training as far as scenarios/mindset/tactics ,etc..... You don't want a 1984-1988 me carrying a pistol in public and getting into a scenario.
Maybe things changed in 1989 LOL

Yes it was simular to the FATS kind of an upgrade. I eventually received certification on shot gun tactics and tought it to others. On ships it is a different game, taught trainees how to play pool with 00 Buck. The dummies were life size and when you shoot the deck just behind them it really takes out their legs. Also, shooting at an opposite bulk head to bounce it around the corner really made a mess too. We also taught some LEOs. One big differance between LEOs training and ours is when using an ASP we took out joints the LEOs were not allowed to do that.

 

[willtill]

.

 

[hogarth]

Sounds like the early FATS system. Fire Arms Training Simulator. Had a CO2 operated blowback system for the slide. But this didn't shoot a projectile. One scenario I remember is a guy coming out from behind a dumpster at you with a hard rake. LOL BLAMMO! He gets it.
One thing this system did help with is movement. They could actually judge your go/no go if you created distance, moved, etc... The thing was pretty primitive. This must have been late 90's I wanna say.

Every keeps parroting "military training". I can only speak for when I was in the infantry 84-88, we got ZERO training as far as scenarios/mindset/tactics ,etc..... You don't want a 1984-1988 me carrying a pistol in public and getting into a scenario.
Maybe things changed in 1989 LOL

The funny thing is that many people will say, "I'm not ready to try scenario-based, force-on-force training." Yet they are walking around armed in public from one real-life "scenario" to the next: to the grocery store, the gas station, the bowling alley, etc. Well-scripted scenario-based training (that does not immediately devolve into "cowboys and Indians" mag-dumps) is invaluable and should be taken early and often. It's a shame more instructors don't offer it. I've had to travel decent distances to get such quality training as is available to non-LE like me.

 

[Blaster229]

The funny thing is that many people will say, "I'm not ready to try scenario-based, force-on-force training." Yet they are walking around armed in public from one real-life "scenario" to the next: to the grocery store, the gas station, the bowling alley, etc. Well-scripted scenario-based training (that does not immediately devolve into "cowboys and Indians" mag-dumps) is invaluable and should be taken early and often. It's a shame more instructors don't offer it. I've had to travel decent distances to get such quality training as is available to non-LE like me.

Face mask and throat protection. That's all we wore.
I did wear a left hand glove because I had a motorcycle and clutching would break the scabs. I got tired of that.
The welts heal in a couple days.
I would always criticize people who would train wearing their plate carriers, etc... You know "train as you fight".
Meanwhile the whole idea is to stay in the fight while taking on rounds. That's no good when you can't feel them.

It makes a world of difference. Because that's the closest anyone would get to being on a two way range.

 

[Harrys]

Face mask and throat protection. That's all we wore.
I did wear a left hand glove because I had a motorcycle and clutching would break the scabs. I got tired of that.
The welts heal in a couple days.
I would always criticize people who would train wearing their plate carriers, etc... You know "train as you fight".
Meanwhile the whole idea is to stay in the fight while taking on rounds. That's no good when you can't feel them.

It makes a world of difference. Because that's the closest anyone would get to being on a two way range.

We just wore our standard uniform issue not even hearing protection for training. Now they are in full body armor, helmets, gloves, and full tactical gear when training.

One of the ships we boarded we followed for 2 days. I was the shot gun man so first on board to clear decks. As I was making my way around the port side a guy cam running out of a door screaming. I racked my gun and drew down on him and he dove into an open door. I heard a bunch of banging when I went to the door he laid 2 decks down in the engine room all broke up. I cuffed him to the ladder railing. In formed the boarding party and went topside to finish clearing the deck.

Made my way to the bridge found the ship on auto pilot. In formed the Informed the boarding leader. Was ordered to turn off auto pilot and place engines in neutral. Left the bridge and finished clearing the deck found myself in the galley. The entire ship crew was passed out in the galley. One hoochiewana bail on the table lots of booze and Js like in the Cheech and Chong movies.

Before procceing requested back up. Long story short they new they were caught and went out with a party 26 tons of pot total. After we interrigated the crew we found one of them was on the FBIs most wanted list.

I do not miss thoes days it is a young man's game.