Ideas for self-defense shotgun loads?

[Inigoes]

And before someone trots out that tried-and-true logical fallacy along the lines of "If birdshot's such a terrible idea, let me shoot YOU with it," please realize that I also don't want to get kicked in the nuts, but that doesn't make a steel-toed boot an effective home defense tool.

And It is pure fallacy!

My "felon"eous brother got shot with birdshot at close distance (20 feet max) while accosting a homeowner over his woman, years ago.

He got a knee full of bird shot. His knee looked like it was tenderized real good, but he had full function and is still picking pellets out of his skin to this day (30 some odd years later).

 

[fred333]

Just realize, that you are risking your life and the lives of your family over the POSSIBILITY of stopping the attacker with potentially less force.
Your choice.
Mine is to hit them as hard as possible. A reasonable shoot is a reasonable shoot.

If I lived alone out in the country, 00's (with a few slugs thrown in to dot-the-i's, so to speak!) are definitely the way to go.
But, here in town, I don't think you can ignore reality. To wit: I'm less concerned with the attacker's fate versus over-penetration/the fate of potential innocents on the other side of the (dry)wall. That's why I'd opt for alotta bird shot over a little double-aut.. But, generally speaking, your point's well-taken.

 

[TheGunnyRet]

I think you need to evaluate your Homes Layout and try to have a situational awareness/plan to include your kin...fallback room/bathroom/tub, closet with handgun in small safe or extra shotgun or rifle...access your terrain and make an op order...JMO

 

[Fishguy]

Friends don't let friends trust their family's lives to birdshot.



But if you insist on using bird shot as your home defense plan, you'd better hope the bad guy doesn't have any bones to get through.

Or else shoot him in the nuts.

 

[fred333]

Never shoot planning to wound.

You misunderstood. My goal isn't to wound or fire warning shots. That would be stupid. I'm just trying to neutralize the threat. If the threat happens to die as a result, then so be it. But killing the threat isn't my goal.

 

[Biggfoot44]

If you absolutely positively have to avoid penetrating drywall on a missed shot , you need to avoid a shotgun. If you feel confident in actually hitting a felon inside the home , the #4 Buck from the other thread will probably not exit the felon's torso, yet be far more effective than birdshot. Fab's Heavi Shot # T isn't very far from lead 4 buck.

AS regards the flowchart from a cpl posts ago, I would modify option #1 to " falls down and stops moving for imeadate future " . The goal is for felons to fall down and not move at least until PD and EMT arrive, perment is optional, and a matter of random chance and of the quality of emergency surgery.

 

[fred333]

My "felon"eous brother got shot with birdshot at close distance (20 feet max) while accosting a homeowner over his woman, years ago.

Did he continue the accosting after his knee took the hit?

 

[rico903]

I guess. That must be why cops and military load out with bird shot.

I don't equate my limited home defense needs with those of LEO or military. Which would you prefer, that I hit you with a 9 iron or a face full of a couple of rounds of bird shot? My guess is that once you're blind you are done. Unlike many here I'm not preparing for the apocalypse. Personally I'll stick to #4 Buck in my condo. #1 if I run across it. And I do have a box of the PDX rounds so I feel covered.

 

[Inigoes]

Did he continue the accosting after his knee took the hit?

Yep, he was able to continue his attack.

Drugs, don't let people feel a thing...

After he was arrested, and in the hospital. They gave him the treatment, he deserved.

 

[Boondock Saint]

Did he continue the accosting after his knee took the hit?

Yep, he was able to continue his attack.

Drugs, don't let people feel a thing...

After he was arrested, and in the hospital. They gave him the treatment, he deserved.

This is why I personally won't risk getting into a fight for my life with birdshot.

Someone whacked out of their mind on PCP or whatever cocktail du jour cannot think clearly and won't listen to reason. Their bodies, however, will still understand basic biology and physics.

All I want to do is stop the fight. People thinking clearly aren't going to hang around too long once you bring a firearm to a "simple" B&E. Others either can't or won't process that bit of information into a decision to stop being a threat to me and my family.

Move along, sir.

 

[Fishguy]

This is why I personally won't risk getting into a fight for my life with birdshot.

Someone whacked out of their mind on PCP or whatever cocktail du jour cannot think clearly and won't listen to reason. Their bodies, however, will still understand basic biology and physics.

All I want to do is stop the fight. People thinking clearly aren't going to hang around too long once you bring a firearm to a "simple" B&E. Others either can't or won't process that bit of information into a decision to stop being a threat to me and my family.

Move along, sir.

Funny, this seems like such a simple concept to grasp. Not seeing the forest because of the trees and all that, I guess.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Ah , if we could only count on burglars and home invaders to calm, sober people , who make rational decisions. Heck I suppose some of them actually are, probably the sucuessful ones who don't get discovered/ cought in the act most of the time.

The ones that you will have need to shoot are more likely to be drunk, stoned, wired on adreline or rage, or violently psychotic.

 

[Katrina3]

i believe in self defense, but being wise about it

 

[plinkerton]

After reading the entire thread I think I see a consensus that bird shot ain't the way to go, unless you are right in front of the target. And even then there are variables that could diminish the effectiveness.

The Judge is a good rat and snake gun, and a fun toy, but don't bet your life on it.

#1, #4, and 00 buck are the best, but could go through walls.

A 410 can be effective with the right shot choice.

So assuming your only option is a shotgun where is the compromise that will reduce the chance of the shot going through walls and give an acceptable level of confidence you will stop the bad guy?

 

[smokey]

Fun times

 

[Biggfoot44]

If a shotgun is your only option, accept that there is NO compromise available, and plan your tactics around the fact that a missed shot WILL go thru walls. The only "compromise" possable is to select a load that probably won't over penetrate a shot that connects with a felon.

If you NEED a round that won't go thru walls, you need to put aside the shotgun, and go to a handgun loaded with prefragmented rounds. ( And those rounds WON'T go thru an interior wall by first hand experience.)

 

[fred333]

If you NEED a round that won't go thru walls, you need to put aside the shotgun, and go to a handgun loaded with prefragmented rounds. ( And those rounds WON'T go thru an interior wall by first hand experience.)

I don't mean to hijack the thread....at least, not too much, but this definitely piqued my interest. Can you tell me more about your personal experience with "prefragmented" pistol rounds? What caliber and/or brand did you use?

 

[Biggfoot44]

Not that I am endorsing them for general purpose SD use , but they can have s specialized purpose.

MagSafe .38Spl +P+ fired into bedroom wall, round .38 cal hole , nothing came thru the drywall on the other side , no bulging or bumps either. Did leave my ears ringing for several hours.

The early generation Glasers used #11/#12 shot , and indeed have very shallow penetration, ie 3-4 inches.

Then back in the '80s , the late Mr. Joe Zambone decided to improve on the concept. Among other things he used larger sized shot, initially #6 , eventually #2 and #4 . Penetration with the larger sizes now runs 8-10in . While still less than many prefer for general purpose duty loads , it is in the same range as several succuessful fast expanding JHP old school loads.

Feeling the competion from MagSafe , Glaser created their "Silver" product line , using compressed #6 .

As a class , all the commercial pre-fragmented will have non-penetration of interior walls. For effectiveness on BG's my recomendations are : 1. Standard MagSafe ( not SWAT) 2. Glaser Silver 3. Glaser Blue .

They are expensive. They will hit low. You need to test them in your gun for POI . Some will hit within 2in at across the room distances , some 4 or 5 inches.

 

[Sirex]

I want a couple shotgun shells loaded with dimes. That way I can say the intruder broke in and demanded my money.

 

[Traveler]

I want a couple shotgun shells loaded with dimes. That way I can say the intruder broke in and demanded my money.

Here's your hope and change?