Import Mark

[1Shifter]

Hey Guys,
I had the winning bid on a 1938 Izzy with a "SA" mark on the side of the receiver. The gun was imported in the 1960's and the importer "PYE" appears on the top of the receiver. The letters do not interfere with any of the other marks but I was wondering how this would effect the value of the piece. According to the seller there are no cracks or rust and the rifling is good. It does have a rather large repair to the stock but to me that's a plus. I'm very anxious to get my grubby hands on it, my first Finnish rifle and my fourth MN (if you include the T53).

 

[Alphabrew]

I'm my experience, guns that are not import marked bring a premium, but otherwise it's assumed that milsurp rifles will be import marked. I actually saw an import marked Smith and Wesson revolver once. I guess it went overseas to a police dept. and Century brought it back.

 

[Dave91]

Link to the auction? I've never heard of PYE. I've only seen Marathon and Century on the Finns. These marks are very small towards the end of the barrel, almost unnoticeable.

 

[ohen cepel]

I think the import marks hurt it some (if that is what they are in this case).
However, in the future I think there will be a bit of a difference in the type of import marks. I had a bolt gun years ago that when Century imported it that marked CAI very small under the bolt handle, really had to search to find it.

Those, small markings will be more appreciated than the BILLBOARDS with new serial #'s, directions to the nearest Wendy's ect that the ATF is forcing people to put onto them now.

I am already looking for the earlier batches of imported stuff which doesn't have the billboard on them, so, if you're only has 3 letters I think you're in great shape!

 

[psoyring]

I'm my experience, guns that are not import marked bring a premium, but otherwise it's assumed that milsurp rifles will be import marked. I actually saw an import marked Smith and Wesson revolver once. I guess it went overseas to a police dept. and Century brought it back.

I have sold a couple of refurbed Mosins on GB where the importer missed the import marks altogether, they did not bring any premium pricewise over a regular import marked one, remember the Canadians get all of their guns without any import marks.

 

[1Shifter]

Import Mark part 2

The mark is not seen in the auction pics, the seller sent me an email with a few detailed pics of the gun. I've just never seen the name of the importer on the top of the receiver located between the serial number and the arsenal mark. PYE and the "new" serial number appear again as a single line on the barrel. I couldn't find anything on the interwebs either about "PYE" imports, if anyone could shed some light on the subject that would be great.

 

[BigDaddy]

I couldn't find anything on the interwebs either about "PYE" imports, if anyone could shed some light on the subject that would be great.

I also found nothing on the net about PYE. The mark would greatly hurt a high value weapon, like a luger or a minty P-38 or broomhandle. Not so much on milsurp rifles. Of course capture papers and no import mark would be the best of all worlds.

Enjoy it.

Henry

 

[Lou45]

I am almost absolute certain, without seeing it, that the "PYE" is the English interpretation of the Russian letters that preceed the original serial number. Russian alphabet has 32 characters, English only 26. This was done by the importer.

 

[h2u]

Does your serial start with two Cyrillic letters? Does the first look kinda like the symbol for pi and the second looks like a capital E?
Per ATF regs, the importers couldn't use a serial number with Cyrillic letters. So they transliterated the Cyrillic and stamped the English letters just above the original serial number.

 

[Machodoc]

Finding a firearm without an import mark is preferable to one with an import mark ... but in the long run, I don't think it's as big a deal as most people seem to think. While I hate the marks that look like a billboard on the side of the piece, and the ones that screw up the original finish (many of the CZ 82s, for example), import marks are part of the firearm's history, too. In some cases, they even enhance the history. Here are a couple of examples:

When Sig Sauer first set up an American distributor, they were in Tyson's Corner, VA (for about 2 years). When you see "Tyson, VA" on a Sig, you know that it was one of the first ones brought into the U.S. to be sold here new. Furthermore, about 300 of their first pistols (P230s, I think) were sent out to be marked and were marked, "Lyson, VA". Almost 200 of these got out into the market before it was noticed, so those are kind of rare and bring a premium.

Quite a number of Chinese Norinco (China North Industries) SKSs were brought into the U.S. and sold by a few Chinese-owned distributors, spread out across the country, between 1989 and 1992. One of the smaller of these was "CJA" in Southfield, Michigan (not "Smithfield", as is often misrepresented on the Interwebs). Although the Chinese owner denied there being any connection, CJA happened to stand for "China Jing An", and China Jing'an Equipment company was a commercial export "shadow" company that was owned and operated by the People's Armed Police (the same guys driving the tanks in Tienamen Square).

I'd also pose that some of my favorite firearms are ones that have history behind them that I'd only have known because they have identifying marks from other countries--such as my Star B that was made just a little too late to go to Nazi Germany, was part of Spain's Guardia Civil police arsenal, then ended up in South Africa before coming to the U.S..

We can also often get a fair idea when a marked firearm came into the U.S. because some importers changed locations over time, changed their style of import marks, etc.

Sometimes we are too close to history to see it from the same perspective as others will years from now. When I was a kid, living on military bases, my friends' dads were just that ... the dads of friends. Now, in retrospect, I realize that one was a WWII ace in the Pacific, another was wounded in the first wave of Marines to hit the beach at Iwo Jima, one lost his leg at Anzio, and yet another was shot down and held POW for almost 2 years in Korea.

That's why I think that, in the long run, most import marks aren't going to be a big deal to future collectors, and some may even end up being desirable attributes because the confirm part of the firearm's history.

 

[1Shifter]

h2u....that's exactly what it looks like! I was so hung up on the "PYE" that I didn't notice that the S/N's are the same! The last four numbers, 4169, being the same on both the "original serial number" and the import mark. Very interesting stuff.

 

[Dave91]

I've seen that on recent 91/30 imports but not on a Finn. I'd like to see pictures of the rifle.

 

[1Shifter]

Not sure if this helps...

It was on G/B but I'm not sure if it's still there. Auction number is 390947152
and was described as a "battlefield pickup". The pics are generic, the seller kindly forwarded several pictures, one with the SA mark on it.
Once I get it I'll try to post a few pics.

 

[Dave91]

It was on G/B but I'm not sure if it's still there. Auction number is 390947152
and was described as a "battlefield pickup". The pics are generic, the seller kindly forwarded several pictures, one with the SA mark on it.
Once I get it I'll try to post a few pics.

The auction pictures are bad, but from what I can see that looks nice. At that price you did very well, even after you add shipping. I'm looking forward to the pictures.

 

[1Shifter]

Got it yesterday

No pics yet but when I took it out of the box I pi$$ed down both pant legs! She's Purdy for sure. I'm no expert in Mosins, Finn or otherwise, but the wood looks different from my other "Russian" rifles. Feels a little heavier than my others but that's probably just my imagination. Most interesting is when I pulled the action out I see three stamps on the inside of the stock. Two with numbers in a circle and one that looks like a number with the top of a crown but it's hard to tell. Other than the bore being alittle dirty she's perfect. Still has the Russian "Globe" style sight, not the blade type I've seen on other Finn MN's.
I'll post pictures later, soon as I figure out how

 

[Machodoc]

No pics yet but when I took it out of the box I pi$$ed down both pant legs! She's Purdy for sure. I'm no expert in Mosins, Finn or otherwise, but the wood looks different from my other "Russian" rifles. Feels a little heavier than my others but that's probably just my imagination. Most interesting is when I pulled the action out I see three stamps on the inside of the stock. Two with numbers in a circle and one that looks like a number with the top of a crown but it's hard to tell. Other than the bore being alittle dirty she's perfect. Still has the Russian "Globe" style sight, not the blade type I've seen on other Finn MN's.
I'll post pictures later, soon as I figure out how

Sounds like a good score! Look forward to the pics ... better hurry before everyone starts piling on you for not posting!

 

[Dave91]

Still waiting for those pics

 

[Threeband]

"It posts the pictures, or else it gets the hose again."


I'll bet all he has is a Red Ryder BB gun.

 

[yellowsled]

Sad face


no pics yet

 

[why2kmax]

did you use a big flash? The pics all look like a blank page...