Indiana Shooter - 8 out of 10 at 40 Yards in 15 Seconds ...

[Mr. Ed]

I imagine his self realization went something like this...

It was at that moment... he realized that he fvcked up.

 

[Biggfoot44]

I looked closer at the two areas and I agree the area I first highlighted does appear to have an actual door at the end of that corridor. So my assessment as to his location is likely off.

You are correct that if he was exiting the bathrooms where the vending machines were located, the GGWAG was likely still in the general area I had previously highlighted (near the cookie shop). So he would have had some cover from 2-3 large columns.

Makes me think that intentionally positioning one’s self at the perimeter of a large public space or adjacent to some cover may be the thing that keeps you from becoming one of the early victims of an attack like this, while also giving you a brief chance to formulate a defensive engagement strategy.

See the phrase " cop's chair " aka " gunfighter's seat " .

View of entire room/ venue , back against Wall or otherwise no access to behind them , near to an exit/ escape . Sitting at bar , usually far stool at end .

 

[TheOriginalMexicanBob]

 

[MigraineMan]

 

[huesmann]

On the other hand, I am only aware of an instance of two where a CCW was killed in a mass shooting/attempted mass shooting and the one off the top of my head the CCW neutralized the perp and then police shot and killed CCW shortly there after.

That is the real danger with being a GGWAG. You may have mere seconds to neutralize the threat, before you become mistaken for a threat. What happens if there are two (or more) GGWAGs and one mistakes the other for a shooter?

 

[TheOriginalMexicanBob]

How many cops have accidentally shot another cop? It's a danger that must be accepted...part of the calculated risk of either a cop or a civilian who legally carries a firearm.

 

[lazarus]

How many cops have accidentally shot another cop? It's a danger that must be accepted...part of the calculated risk of either a cop or a civilian who legally carries a firearm.

Agreed. And I might have it wrong on the Colorado instance, but I think this was a case where the GGWAG neutralized the bad guy and didn’t holster or out down his handgun and another cop arriving on the scene a large number of seconds later mistook him for a bad guy. I don’t think this was an instance where it was just a few seconds to react to make yourself appear as not a threat.

However, it is reinforcement that if you are that GGWAG, you need to immediately make yourself not visibly armed once you believe the threat is likely neutralized.

Also at least for me, unless I KNEW someone was a bad guy with a gun I’d probably still react by yelling at someone to drop it first if I hadn’t observed the totality of the incident.

Also a good reason “not be a hero” if you aren’t directly involved in the shooting. You might not actually be helping.

 

[Applehd]

PG county... a few years ago. Not looking it up...

 

[DC-W]

How many cops have accidentally shot another cop? It's a danger that must be accepted...part of the calculated risk of either a cop or a civilian who legally carries a firearm.

 

[Melnic]

WTF, I'd be jumping the dog if it was on my spouse, kid or partner, not shooting at it.

 

[TheOriginalMexicanBob]

This was in PG County years ago...probably in the '80s but not sure...possibly older. Two officers who were best friends and on the SWAT/entry team together...trained together...close families...the works. On one occasion when SWAT was called out for a situation. When they entered the scene (I forget all the particulars)...one went in low and one high. The threat emerged which required immediate action...the officer who was low rose up to shoot just as his pal behind did shoot...shot him in the back of the head, killing him.

The woman who founded C.O.P.S....Concerns of Police Survivors...was married to a US Capitol Police officer who died in a training accident...shot by his close friend who arrived late for the training session and failed to empty is service gun. It doesn't have to be in a criminal situation to die or cause someone to die.

It's bad enough to make such a mistake but your best friend makes it even worse.

 

[hogarth]

Agreed. And I might have it wrong on the Colorado instance, but I think this was a case where the GGWAG neutralized the bad guy and didn’t holster or out down his handgun and another cop arriving on the scene a large number of seconds later mistook him for a bad guy. I don’t think this was an instance where it was just a few seconds to react to make yourself appear as not a threat.

However, it is reinforcement that if you are that GGWAG, you need to immediately make yourself not visibly armed once you believe the threat is likely neutralized.

Also at least for me, unless I KNEW someone was a bad guy with a gun I’d probably still react by yelling at someone to drop it first if I hadn’t observed the totality of the incident.

Also a good reason “not be a hero” if you aren’t directly involved in the shooting. You might not actually be helping.

In Colorado, the good guy neutralized the bad guy AND THEN PICKED UP THE BAD GUY'S RIFLE!. Cops came around the corner and lit him up.

 

[TheLizardKing]

This was in PG County years ago...probably in the '80s but not sure...possibly older. Two officers who were best friends and on the SWAT/entry team together...trained together...close families...the works. On one occasion when SWAT was called out for a situation. When they entered the scene (I forget all the particulars)...one went in low and one high. The threat emerged which required immediate action...the officer who was low rose up to shoot just as his pal behind did shoot...shot him in the back of the head, killing him.

The woman who founded C.O.P.S....Concerns of Police Survivors...was married to a US Capitol Police officer who died in a training accident...shot by his close friend who arrived late for the training session and failed to empty is service gun. It doesn't have to be in a criminal situation to die or cause someone to die.

It's bad enough to make such a mistake but your best friend makes it even worse.

Dang, that's a sad story

 

[lazarus]

In Colorado, the good guy neutralized the bad guy AND THEN PICKED UP THE BAD GUY'S RIFLE!. Cops came around the corner and lit him up.

Thanks, now I am remembering better. Yeah, it was some serious mistakes from the GGWAG.

I get removing the firearm from the bad guy who isn't maybe dead. But pushing it to the side with your foot is the better option (kicking it is a BAD idea).

 

[wilcam47]

That is the real danger with being a GGWAG. You may have mere seconds to neutralize the threat, before you become mistaken for a threat. What happens if there are two (or more) GGWAGs and one mistakes the other for a shooter?

Saw a video of similar scenario but it was 2 bad guys, or rather guy and girl. Ggwag goes after bad guy and didnt notice the bad girl with a gun trailing behind and ggwag got shot from behind

 

[Malachi.2.15]

Did the video(s) of the incident from inside the mall ever get released?

 

[hogarth]

Did the video(s) of the incident from inside the mall ever get released?

No.

But I did read that some of Dicken's shell casings were as close as 10 yds from the dead body, which would indicate that, much as I've been saying here and elsewhere, the idea that Dicken fired all 10 rds from 43 yds is not at all realistic.

 

[JohnnyE]

No.

But I did read that some of Dicken's shell casings were as close as 10 yds from the dead body, which would indicate that, much as I've been saying here and elsewhere, the idea that Dicken fired all 10 rds from 43 yds is not at all realistic.

Can you link to a source? This is new news.

 

[hogarth]

Can you link to a source? This is new news.

There's a long thread on Pistol Forum about it. It also referenced that again, just like I've said, the first 2 rounds put bad guy out of fight and then he basically did the crab walk back to the restroom, getting shot the entire time.

The thread also included a link to Mike Pannone's kinda sorta rant about Dicken Drills, which I enjoyed.

 

[OldBrokenGrunt]

It may not be funny but his “oh ****” comment after she said he shot her had me cracking up.