Is a conversion cylinder legal in md

[ffbobo]

Can I take my 58 Remington replica with a store bought, self installed
cartridge conversion cylinder and legally fire it at a firing range?

Do I need to do any paperwork?
Did a search. Did not find what I needed.

Thank You

 

[mikec]

http://mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=271404&postcount=4

http://mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=13961

In the BP section, a few pages back.

 

[zoostation]

In my opinion, yes you can.

As long as you are not legally prohibited from owning a handgun. What you are doing in effect is taking your black powder pistol, considered a non-firearm, and "manufacturing" a firearm/modern handgun. There is no law against manufacturing a firearm for your own personal use. When the conversion cylinder is in place, in my opinion it also has all the restrictions of a modern handgun, as far as only transporting to and from certain places, etc. If you ever were to sell it with the conversion cylinder still in place, it would need to be treated as a modern firearm.

 

[WeaponsCollector]

Can I take my 58 Remington replica with a store bought, self installed
cartridge conversion cylinder and legally fire it at a firing range?

Do I need to do any paperwork?
Did a search. Did not find what I needed.

Thank You

No paperwork needed as far as I know. Black powder guns are not controlled and cylinders are legal to purchase without paperwork.
I fire mine(Ruger Old Army with .45 ACP conversion) at ranges all the time but I am most definitely not a lawyer.

 

[ffbobo]

Saw that, but

I know I can own it, but I want to know that I can fire it legally at a public range in MD, without paperwork.

 

[mcsurgeon]

i brought my ruger old army at cresap one time and shot it with a conversion cylinder.

 

[GNLaFrance]

I know I can own it, but I want to know that I can fire it legally at a public range in MD, without paperwork.

Yes, you can shoot it anywhere you can legally shoot a center fire revolver. I can't imagine what paperwork you might have in mind.

 

[Norton]

duplicate threads merged.

 

[alucard0822]

Zoo pretty much summed it up. You do not need paperwork to accompany any handguns to the range, and a cartridge converted BP pistol is no different. As long as you are not a prohibited person(felon, illegal alien, habitual drunkard, insane), then go to a range, and blast away. The only issue is if it would have a shoulder stock as some BP pistols do, then it might be considered an NFA device and require paperwork where an unconverted BP revolver with a shoulder stock is legally about the same as a pair of boots. "Technically" once the conversion cylinder is in you have manufactured a handgun, which is legal, however in the ATF's eyes it will forever be a handgun from then on out, and must be treated as such in reguard to transfers and the like. Removing the conversion and returning it in all outward appearances and function to it's original BP configuration does not change that, it is still technically a manufactured handgun, although there is no way anyone would really know. Kinda like the carbine conversions for pistols, they convert a hangun to a rifle, which is legal, however for the most part you cannot make a pistol from a rifle, it becomes an NFA device, and therefore taking this simple cabine conversion kit off leaves you in "technical" violation of federal firearms law, even though most everyone with kits puts them on, and takes them off without knowing, or thinking about it. Just part of the stupidity that is our network of gun control laws.

 

[teratos]

So you can buy a BP pistol, no paper work. Then buy a conversion cylinder, no paperwork. Put them together and have a handgun firing modern ammunition? Am I understanding that correctly?

 

[ffbobo]

Thanks to everyone, including Moderator

 

[WeaponsCollector]

So you can buy a BP pistol, no paper work. Then buy a conversion cylinder, no paperwork. Put them together and have a handgun firing modern ammunition? Am I understanding that correctly?

That's what I did. You can even have BOTH mailed right to your home with no permits or BS paperwork. We must close the black powder cartridge conversion loophole!
Only police and military should have converted black powder guns.

 

[teratos]

That's what I did. You can even have BOTH mailed right to your home with no permits or BS paperwork. We must close the black powder cartridge conversion loophole!
Only police and military should have converted black powder guns.

Huh. I never even thought of it. I had heard that some criminals were now turning to black powder guns. I had just assumed that they were really using black powder, and that painted a humorous picture in my mind of a bunch of gang-bangers trying to figure out cap and ball etc. This makes more sense.

 

[Markp]

So you can buy a BP pistol, no paper work. Then buy a conversion cylinder, no paperwork. Put them together and have a handgun firing modern ammunition? Am I understanding that correctly?

Yep, aint the law great for protecting us! Criminals are always too dumb to figure this stuff out... so we have nothing to worry about..

Mark

 

[alucard0822]

So you can buy a BP pistol, no paper work. Then buy a conversion cylinder, no paperwork. Put them together and have a handgun firing modern ammunition? Am I understanding that correctly?

Yes, the BP reolver is exempt from the 68CGA and FFL requirements, the conversion cylinder is simply a part, combine them, and you have manufactured a handgun, perfectly legal if you are not a prohibited person and it is for "personal use" AKA you are not converting them and selling them. This is how just about all centerfire handgun and long gun sales were conducted prior to 1968, mailorder, between citizens or at a gun shop. The 68GCA introduced the FFL system as we know it, and all the BS that goes along with it. Crime went up after passing the law, peaked in the late 70's eary 80s, and has been steadily declining since, basically proving that the law did nothing to reduce gun crime, and could be construed to increase it if the stats and date the law went into effect were correlated. Surprisingly enough(sarcasm) a major gun control law has universally failed to show any benefit in reducing crime over the 42 years since it passed.

Huh. I never even thought of it. I had heard that some criminals were now turning to black powder guns. I had just assumed that they were really using black powder, and that painted a humorous picture in my mind of a bunch of gang-bangers trying to figure out cap and ball etc. This makes more sense.

There are no direct statistics on BP guns used in crimes, but there was a columbia U study a few years ago that tried to determine the number of certain categories of weapons used, "assault rifles" were thought to be used more and more by criminals, were "shooting and killing more police than ever", and a handful of other brady talking points. Turned out that rifles of any type were used in less than 2% of "gun crimes", and semi auto rifles including everyting from 10/22s to ARs were less than 1%. The use of BP guns was pretty much nothing, almost universally, compact pistols and revolvers made between 5-15 years prior to the crime were used. When the Brady's started pushing for a BP ban in NY, they were aruing that a large number of guns used in crimes were "antiques" meant to imply cap and ball revolvers, their data included any gun more than 20 years old(first gen GLOCK17s for instance, and included the results of gun buyback programs where few of the guns turned in were ever, or would ever have been used in crime. While a criminal "could" buy a BP gun and cylinder, it pretty much never happens, and the law that makes it illegal for a career criminal to buy a stolen pistol from another criminal is the same law that makes it illegal for a criminal to manufacture, or posess a BP revolver converted to centerfire. Being they unilaterally ignore the rest of the laws, it only stands to reason that they would ignore a law making it double illegal, however the rest of us would suffer in that we couldn't mail order kits, and would probably have to go through an FFL for BP guns because they "might" be used for a conversion, or we would have to buy the cylinders through an FFL, all the while the guns almost never are used in crimes, and with the new strict scrutiny that would be needed to pass a 2nd ammendment infringement, the law would undoubtedly fail that standard.

 

[Dino]

Huh. I never even thought of it. I had heard that some criminals were now turning to black powder guns. I had just assumed that they were really using black powder, and that painted a humorous picture in my mind of a bunch of gang-bangers trying to figure out cap and ball etc. This makes more sense.

I've never heard that before.
And what would be the purpose?

If the BP/converted gun were to be found on the BG's person, or used in the commission of a crime, the BG still gets a weapons charge, so I see no real advantage there.

Besides, I would think that gang-bangers would have the appropriate connections to obtain any firearm they want ... high capacity, fully auto, etc. It's only the law abiding citizen who doesn't have access to these weapons.

I also have to consider the fact that BP conversions usually require some fitting in order to become truly reliable. I just don't see a gang-banger having the desire or know-how to go through that trouble just to potentially be out-gunned. It just seems a bit far fetched to me.

Here's my Uberti '49 Pocket with an R&D .32S&W conversion cylinder.
As a "drop-in" part, the cylinder would cycle, but would often over-shoot the bolt and not lock up properly. I had to fit and polish the bolt, order another hand and fit it in order for the cylinder to cycle smooth and consistent.
I dunno ... I may be wrong, but I just can't see too many gang-bangers going through all that trouble.

 

[Clovis]

Sorry about bringing this back up again.

I have a question regarding these and the state's FSA2013. I don't think it was addressed and likely would not make any difference.

I see Kirst has a conversion kit for several cap and ball revolvers available to convert them to .22 LR. I can't see any difference between just a cylinder for the conversion, but I may be missing something in the fine print and details. It like it won't be a legal problem. Anyone have any insight?

http://www.kirstkonverter.com/22-caliber-conversion-kits.html

 

[Fox123]

FSA2013 did not prohibit the manufacturing for personal use which is allowed under GCA68. FSA2013 only addressed the sale and transfer of handguns.

Still legal as it was before.

IANAL

 

[iH8DemLibz]

The only problem with this scenario is that many black powder revolvers are not at all reliable.

Poor craftsmanship, poor fitting of key parts, poor metallurgy, etc.

The internals and lock work are very finicky and prone to timing issues or a complete stoppage.

Don't stake your life on this combination unless you're prepared to drop 6 bills for a Ruger Old Army.

 

[Melnic]

On an issue mentioned earlier in this thread , I thought the conversion does not necessarily allow modern handgun ammo and you needed to use cowboy loads? Like the Blackhills stuff or reload yourself with a reduced load.