Is it really necessary to stake the castle nut?

[normbal]

A little blue Lock-tite on mine keeps them from coming loose, and if I want to make a change, I can do so easily.

Modern technology. Ain’t it grand? Works for me, but I’m not off in dirka-dirka land, yet. (Murphreesboro has the largest mosque in the US)

 

[smokey]

K2 System Castle Nut - Lightweight Enhanced AR15 End Plate

I used one of these on my last build and will always use them moving forward. They're awesome.

 

[holesonpaper]

Hey man - glad to see you're still here.

Have you removed the PWS castle nut from those rifles or just installed and left it?

Cheers AB... Absolutely. I've installed and removed the castle nuts a number of times, put thousands of rounds through, run around in classes/training, etc - and never had a problem although personally I usually run the entire PWS setup (with buffer tube as it has the extra tabs out front). Now I have nothing against staking (I have a rifle or two that's staked) however you must do properly. I have seen a poor stake job fail. Staking, pws and even SOTAR helped me glue a titanium castle nut on a AR10 I was trying to lighten up - you can be successful with all. Some will absolutely disagree but to each their own...

Enhanced Buffer Tube with Ratchet Lock Castlenut and Endplate

Weight- 4.3 oz. Mil-Spec tube diameter Impact Extruded 7075 Aluminum Extended Carrier Support Lip For Smoother Cycling 6 Positions for Stock Lightening Cuts Reducing Weight By Approx. 1 Oz. Off Mil-Spec Unique Fluted Tube Design For Debris Clearing Engraved Position Numbers Enlarged Drain Holes...

www.primaryweapons.com

 

[holesonpaper]

One last comment - I would definitely do something. Without any protection, the castle nut and buffer tube will come loose if you bang around.. Something is mandatory but there are options.

 

[cmb]

Guess I'll find out how well my Aero Precision castle nut is staked today. Heading over to Jacks in Havre de Grace to have him remove, or loosen up the buffer tube, so the detent can be replaced. Because I'm an idiot, I pushed the slave pin all the way through, till it mated with the detent, while I was attempting to replace the pin!

 

[John from MD]

Staking a castle nut has been standard procedure in many industries and applications. It works well. You really don't want your butt stock to go twirling around when you are shooting and moving.

 

[clandestine]

Using threadlockers or threadlockers that require 300+ degrees of heat can lead to damaged or weakend parts.

Unless you can gauge the parts to determine thread class, you should stake.

I don't care if people don't stake their own AR's. It does bother me when people who are paid to assemble an AR don't do it.

 

[Art3]

I assembled a lower without staking because I was just kinda messing around with it and wasn't sure what I might want to change. It worked fine as it was...and I forgot to go back and stake it.

Sure enough, it came loose during a match and I had a floppy stock that I tried to hand tighten between stages.

 

[outrider58]

Properly torqued, it shouldn't come loose. Staking isn't going to stop a poorly torqued castle nut from coming loose.

 

[jkeys]

Threadlocker works great. It is a modern solution that wasn't around when the AR15 was originally designed, or else they would have used it.

Clandestine's comment on 300 degree temperatures is irrelevant unless you are using red loctite or loctite's green retaining compound and are heating the aluminum buffer tube or receiver over its annealing temperature of 775 deg F. Use blue loctite (low strength 242) or vibra-tite VC3 and you can remove the castle nut at room temperature without requiring heat. Also, his comment about thread class is ill-informed. Threadlockers work by taking up the space between the threads to provide friction. A difference of a couple thousandths won't make a significant difference in the threadlocker's shear resistance.

 

[bbrown]

Here we go.

 

[SkiPatrolDude]

Guess I'll find out how well my Aero Precision castle nut is staked today. Heading over to Jacks in Havre de Grace to have him remove, or loosen up the buffer tube, so the detent can be replaced. Because I'm an idiot, I pushed the slave pin all the way through, till it mated with the detent, while I was attempting to replace the pin!

Even the best of double-staked castle nuts are easily removed with an armorers wrench. That's a big part of why it's done. Keeps it secure and from vibrating loose, but the soft steel can be easily overcome for easy removal (and a new end plate is like $5), unlike threadlocker which needs heat applied in many cases.

 

[SkiPatrolDude]

Threadlocker works great. It is a modern solution that wasn't around when the AR15 was originally designed, or else they would have used it.

Bold statement, and I respectfully disagree.

With modern threadlocker, then why do we still stake the gas keys? Same principles apply, more or less, to the castle nut. It is a chemical free, simple solution to a simple problem.

You can find examples of staking in modern manufacturing across many different products. Why don't we just pour threadlocker in everything then?

If you use threadlocker than fine. I don't care if you use elmers glue to secure your castle nut. But let's not go making uninformed statements about "what's better". If threadlocker was indeed a superior solution than I can guarantee you many manufacturers would have moved that direction.

Also, when threadlocker is applied, you can easily over-torque screws well beyond their design tolerances (scope rings are a good example). In some cases it may not matter, but in cases where proper torque values are required (resulting in proper clamping force), it can get tricky.

 

[jkeys]

Bold statement, and I respectfully disagree.

With modern threadlocker, then why do we still stake the gas keys? Same principles apply, more or less, to the castle nut. It is a chemical free, simple solution to a simple problem.

You can find examples of staking in modern manufacturing across many different products. Why don't we just pour threadlocker in everything then?

If you use threadlocker than fine. I don't care if you use elmers glue to secure your castle nut. But let's not go making uninformed statements about "what's better". If threadlocker was indeed a superior solution than I can guarantee you many manufacturers would have moved that direction.

Gas keys operate at extremely high temperatures that would soften threadlocker. That is why.

And yes, staking is still common in some niche applications, but threadlockers have become far more common in industrial use for many reasons.

 

[SkiPatrolDude]

Gas keys operate at extremely high temperatures that would soften threadlocker. That is why.

And yes, staking is still common in some niche applications, but threadlockers have become far more common in industrial use for many reasons.

Gas keys still use permatex as a sealant between the carrier and the key. There are also threadlocking compounds that will resist the higher heat that the gas key is exposed to. There are a few niche BCG brands that claim that staking the gas key is actually a bad thing.

There are many ways to get from point A to point B here, but to claim one is objectively better than the other is not correct.

By the same logic that cotter pins exist, so does staking.

 

[alucard0822]

Properly stake it or use a quality locking nut, and check it from time to time. I replace mil-spc end plate if I have to remove it, they are all of $2. Have seen lowers damaged from loc-tite, backing the nut off turns the plate, or if heated to loosen the loc tite weakens it in probably the highest stress area of a lower. If it isn't staked and comes loose you can jam up the buffer/BCG if the tube has some play, it can damage the buffer retainer and hole in the lower, damage the tube, and gouge the back of the lower where the end plate locks in.

Or just take 30 seconds and do it right.

 

[teratos]

If Chad says properly torque and stake, that’s what I’m doing. It’s so ridiculously easy to do. Worth the 3 minutes of your time…on a slow day.

 

[John from MD]

Threadlocker works great. It is a modern solution that wasn't around when the AR15 was originally designed, or else they would have used it.

Clandestine's comment on 300 degree temperatures is irrelevant unless you are using red loctite or loctite's green retaining compound and are heating the aluminum buffer tube or receiver over its annealing temperature of 775 deg F. Use blue loctite (low strength 242) or vibra-tite VC3 and you can remove the castle nut at room temperature without requiring heat. Also, his comment about thread class is ill-informed. Threadlockers work by taking up the space between the threads to provide friction. A difference of a couple thousandths won't make a significant difference in the threadlocker's shear resistance.

Can you give us a little idea of your backgound so we can judge the merit of your suggestion?

 

[outrider58]

If Chad says properly torque and stake, that’s what I’m doing. It’s so ridiculously easy to do. Worth the 3 minutes of your time…on a slow day.

...and all this hooey about "if I stake it, I can't remove it or reuse it..."

You can do both. An improperly torqued castle nut will not necessarily be stopped by staking. Staking will tell you your nut is coming loose though.

 

[teratos]

...and all this hooey about "if I stake it, I can't remove it or reuse it..."

You can do both. An improperly torqued castle nut will not necessarily be stopped by staking. Staking will tell you your nut is coming loose though.

Yeah. You can definitely re-use them. Torquing it is so stupid easy. If you are building AR’s, and don’t have a torque wrench, you are dumb.