ITEOTWAWKI Holsters

[ea689c]

Ok, so I am reading the fiction book Patriots by James Wesley Rawles who write survival blogs and this story is about a group of folks surviving the total collapse of the economy. So far a great read and it got me to thinking about all those handguns that we own that we keep in pristine condition safely in their padded cases locked up inside safes and we only take them out to enjoy at the range--what if we had to start carrying those those for personal protection? We all know that tucking the gun in your waste band like in the movies does not work so well and could even be dangerous depending on the safety features the handgun has to offer. Anyway, this might be stupid but I think that I am going to make sure that I have a properly fitting holster for every handgun that I own--just in case. My XDM had a great ITW paddle holster that I can hardly feel when wearing by Safariland that I would recommend to anyone looking. I also am going to consider the possibility of having to carry more than one and which guns should be considered back-ups, and carried in shoulder or ankle holsters. All that said, magazine holders should probably be considered too. Any thoughts?

 

[mikec]

Carrying more than one handgun, why? A handgun is there to help you fight to a rifle. Remember, handgun ballistics suck. Effective range as well. Two average people with .22 rifles could keep you pinned down from 100 yards but you would need to depend on perfect shots to attempt to protect yourself.

Just my $0.02

 

[ea689c]

I agree, I would most definitely have a rifle as well, I was just saying that its not a great idea to not have a secure way of carrying a handgun.

 

[Nemesis]

Carrying more than one handgun, why? A handgun is there to help you fight to a rifle. Remember, handgun ballistics suck. Effective range as well. Two average people with .22 rifles could keep you pinned down from 100 yards but you would need to depend on perfect shots to attempt to protect yourself.

Just my $0.02

Lol...yea, and two people with handguns could keep one guy with a ar, ak or .22 pinned down 100 yards off also...two guys with .22s would pin down a guy with a bigger rifle just the same...2v1 is screwing the 1 regardless. You say .22s, then that handgun balliatics suck yet .22s are far worse than 9mm...your talking a 30 someodd grain bullet at 1200 fps vs a 124 gr at 1200+ fps...hows the .22 any better ballisticly?

 

[hvymax]

A handgun is always better than no gun. Haveing a safe and effective means of carrying it and a reload or two is always a good thing and should be considered for all of your firearms.

 

[jtb81100]

No gun collection is complete without at least three times the number of holsters as guns, most of which have been thrown in a box in the back of the closet after not properly fitting the gun or not feeling comfortable.

The serious answer:
Yes all your guns should have a holster that is functional (holds the gun securely and covers the trigger). That doesn't mean you need a huge setup so you can carry everything at once, but figure out what each gun is for. If it is a gun that you plan to carry (legally with a permit) on a regular basis, get good high quality holsters that will work with the different ways you'll carry. If it is never going to be a CC gun, there is nothing wrong with a nylon owb holster. The only real exception is, you look pretty cheap putting a $2k gun in a $20 holster.

 

[Gundahar]

I am always skeptical of TEOTWAWKI rationales for anything, and would suggest that if you want a much more plausible book to read about societal collapse you check out :
http://www.amazon.com/The-Modern-Survival-Manual-Surviving/dp/9870563457/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1347900066&sr=8-1&keywords=ferfal

As this is from a guy who went through the real thing. His actual experience was quite the opposite from the usual American uber-disasters that doom all city dwellers. He also has a blog.

That said, the idea that each gun could use a way to carry it is quite valid, and I've been looking at more and more holsters lately. Some you want for concealed carry, some for drawing/classes, some for walking in the woods (which may still mean concealed carry--depends on which woods), and at least one "in case the wife needs to carry this".

Tucking the gun in the waistband is actually quite valid if you have that gun in a good IWB holster. Quite a few these days are designed for appendix carry, which is basically "Mexican carry", but in a holster.

Gundahar

 

[ea689c]

Gundahar, Thanks for the link--I will check that out.

 

[OLM-Medic]

Carrying more than one handgun, why? A handgun is there to help you fight to a rifle. Remember, handgun ballistics suck. Effective range as well. Two average people with .22 rifles could keep you pinned down from 100 yards but you would need to depend on perfect shots to attempt to protect yourself.

Just my $0.02

A back up gun is a good thing to carry. If you have something like a P3AT (which I have) and or LCP, it's easy to do.

My friend has a system where he uses the P3AT as if it were a wallet or cell phone. It goes EVERYWHERE with him. Times where you would take out the trash and don't feel like strapping on the fullsized handgun in IWB holster for a 30 second chore, the pocket .380 is always there. Now after this layer of defense is the actual full-sized (or compact) CCW piece. If it goes down, or you simply don't have it on for whatever reason, atleast the pocket .380 is there. They are so light and small, you don't even feel them anyway.

I will probably do this when Maryland becomes part of America in the near future.

 

[montoya32]

The more the merrier. Ideally we would all like to have a high powered rifle for defense, but sometimes it's just not practical. This isn't the movies or some 3rd person shooter video game. You take what you can. Whether it be a knife, handgun, rifle, shotgun or billy club. Something is better than nothing and multiple somethings is better than one something.

 

[Gundahar]

Gundahar, Thanks for the link--I will check that out.

No problem ea689c.

SHTF, WROL, and TEOTWAWKI are a pet peeve of mine. Makes for great ficton, but they are dumb reasons to buy firearms, and planning a build/load out around such an event is double dumb.

There are plenty of likely scenarios that can, and have happened often enough to plan for, but here in America, that kind of societal collapse has frankly never happened. We are spoiled by this, and sometimes forget that it HAS happened to other areas and it sucks hard. But it also has not followed the '60's US survival ideas that you read in the Patriot. (I have it as well btw). Basically not enough wilderness to support even those who are already hunters, cities wind up being the best chance for survival, farmsteads constantly at risk from marauders (see Rwanda) and are far less safe, government increases, not decreases, and so on. No fault of our own--no American has had his society collapse, so what did we know? Maybe Detroit dwellers can comment here. But even there you can just move to California or Utah or something and be okay.

Buying a gun for Zombies or the sudden collapse of 2000 years of civilization makes no sense when you get to worrying about what actually does, or is likely to happen:

1) Crime
2) Natural disaster (which leads to crime)
3) Racial or religious riots (we have race riots, but they are actually pretty tame compared to some parts of the globe--but they do happen. Hopefully we never get Muslim incited riots like the Middle East, or Europe).
4) Economic Collapse

That last one is the important one, as it is what is looming over our heads now. Now mind you, we are like 1000% better off than Greece, or even Spain, and people aren't running to the hills there either. It's good to be the big kid on the block, and have everyone find your debt to be attractive to buy. Far more likely a global economic meltdown that happens in Europe or China, then hits back on us as our trade partners/debt buyers collapse.

However as far as I know, Ferfal's book is the only one of its kind. It describes what happened in Argentina, how it went down from a ground-level point of view, how they coped, and how life changed. The big takeaway from it in terms of firearms (which is a very small section of the book), is that concealed pistols ruled the day, oh, and be armed at all times. The author owned a rifle, but he carried a pistol.

This was a consequence of the "flee to the hills" thing being totally wrong. It was "flee to the cities to find jobs and security" instead. Weird, huh. Like I said, what do we know from collapse? Best we've got is a civil war, a dustbowl, and a great depression. America is a blessed place.

Very enlightening book. After reading it I took a browse through history and realized that the model of collapse that he lived through was what actually happened in history as well.

So in short, your most probable holster need in case of SHTF is actually a Crossbreed Supertuck or something similar. (I like Galco myself). You will likely want something extraordinarily easy to maintain, like a Glock, as handguns are probably now illegal. Yet you need one as crime such as kidnapping and mugging have become more common.

Hmmm......maybe its time for me to check out more gunleather...


Gundahar

 

[Nemesis]

Gundahar...im just waiting for you to say something i dont agree with... hasnt happened yet though.

Thats what i walked away from his story years back with as well, that handguns were the top dogs...and it makes sense. You cannot walk around with a combat rifle, or even a shotgun and not draw some bad attention...the most use rifles are likely to get is hunting.

 

[ea689c]

Gundahar--the book is on order.
Jtb81100--I laughed out loud about the 3 to 1 holster/gun ratio. I have seen this at just about every shop/show and even here in the classifieds! Personally when I was in Iraq I scrapped the leg holster they issued me for my M9 and went with a simple on the belt 2 piece leather type that I got at a bazaar for $10 that kept the M9 securely on my side and the weight was balanced out by the full clips on the opposite side of my waste. Carrying this way for 9 months I was so used to having them on me that it felt weird not carrying when I got back! Being able to quickly draw my weapon was not as important because it was never my primary anyway. From the comments it appears that it is more important to have a weapon, any weapon and know how to use it whether it be a pocket 380, bat or knife if the occasion arises. Hopefully it won't!

 

[Minuteman]

IMHO TEOTWAWKI is extremely unlikely.

Ferfals book is the most likely scenario for us if something happened; while you wait for his book, read his equally excellent blog: http://ferfal.blogspot.com/?m=1

The problem of telling the good guys from the bad guys would be much harder if handguns were illegal, because good guys would continue to possess them and by law that would make them instant bad guys; very slippery slope.

Most bad guys don't use holsters; they also aren't very good shots or too bright either so I advocate for holsters for us good guys. Tactics and mindset are more important than if your pistol is in a holster or not.

A sling for a long gun is very important if you were to have to carry it all day.

A rifle is vastly superior to a handgun, but very difficult to conceal. Unless one were part of an organized defense or policing force, I find it hard to imagine a scenario where individuals would last long walking around with a rifle. YMMV.


http://ferfal.blogspot.com/?m=1

 

[hvymax]

I am working on adapting pistol belts into rifle slings. That way I can secure a mag pouch or two to the sling and they would stay with the rifle. For pistols one of my favorites is a shoulder holster with opposing mags. I aso like my IWB creation using a cheap holster with a mag pouch on the front on my version of a supertuck. I am a huge fan of bullpups and folding stocks for the packability and CQB.

 

[Minuteman]

I am working on adapting pistol belts into rifle slings. That way I can secure a mag pouch or two to the sling and they would stay with the rifle. For pistols one of my favorites is a shoulder holster with opposing mags. I aso like my IWB creation using a cheap holster with a mag pouch on the front on my version of a supertuck. I am a huge fan of bullpups and folding stocks for the packability and CQB.

Brilliant.

 

[NateTheShake]

SHTF, WROL, and TEOTWAWKI are a pet peeve of mine. Makes for great ficton, but they are dumb reasons to buy firearms, and planning a build/load out around such an event is double dumb.

1) Crime
2) Natural disaster (which leads to crime)
3) Racial or religious riots (we have race riots, but they are actually pretty tame compared to some parts of the globe--but they do happen. Hopefully we never get Muslim incited riots like the Middle East, or Europe).
4) Economic Collapse

Could not agree more.

I am lucky enough to work along side mostly like-minded folks when it comes to firearms. I mean how many jobs have you held where a group "range day" is the norm and happens rather frequently (usually three to four times a year)?

That being said there are the frequent conversations of "SHTF" or "TEOTWAWKI" and my personal pet peeve "ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE!!!111" Ok guys, sometimes the zombie thing is fun, but let's be real... there is no such thing as zombies. Never has been, never will be. I'm not talking old-world voodoo zombies, I mean George Romero style zombies shuffling around. They aren't real. Yet there are completely rational, educated folks who actually have "zombie survival kits" and plan scenarios based on the actual danger of zombies.

Furthermore there just isn't going to be a total collapse of civilization overnight. There isn't going to be some sort of "Red Dawn" moment when the Ruskies start dropping from the sky.

So if I don't believe any of the above are going to happen what would be a reason for planning, training, and preparation for some sort of armed conflict? In order this is what I could see happening in our lifetime:

1. Gradual break-down of rule-of-law in which criminals become more desperate and/or emboldened.
2. Temporary loss of governmental control due to natural disaster or riots.
3. Pockets of insurgency based on some sort of political or religious ideology.

Those are what I consider the most realistic threats in our country. We aren't in a great way, nor is the rest of the world, economically and to that end number one is something to expect. Desperate people will do drastic things to survive and the truly dangerous ones will do it with no regard to the lives of others. We have seen situations like number two in circumstances like Hurricane Katrina or the World Trade Organization riots. They were temporary, but during that time people had to fend for themselves because police and other organizations were either too busy or physically incapable of responding to every call. Some situations, like the Occupy "movement," did not have the same results but certainly could have if things got out of hand. Lastly we have sadly all seen what kind of damage a small group of zealots can do when they are organized and intent on causing harm. We bounced back and in the case of the attacks of September 11th we struck back with a fury, but at the time there was complete pandemonium.

 

[Rattlesnake46319]

Ok guys, sometimes the zombie thing is fun, but let's be real... there is no such thing as zombies. Never has been, never will be. I'm not talking old-world voodoo zombies, I mean George Romero style zombies shuffling around. They aren't real.

That's what YOU think....

 

[Nemesis]

Lets not forget about gangs either...

 

[oldsarge]

I carry daily here in Maryland so every time I purchase a new handgun, I get a decent holster to fit it. Due to my body shape and build, IAW carry is not possible or comfortable. I have found that DeSantis paddle or pancake holsters fit my concealment needs and allow me to carry without printing with the right type of clothing. In fact, I have DeSantis holsters for all of my handguns except my CZ P-01. That one was hard to find a good quality holster for. The main requirements that I have for a quality holster is that it have a positive retention strap and an excellent cover for the trigger. I also purchase mag pouches for all my hand guns at the same time I get the holster. Again DeSantis makes a couple of excellent snap-on single mag pouchs with a top flap that fit all of my mags. The last thing I want to do is to be bending over or running and lose my weapon or mags, having them fall out on the street.