Jan Morgan bans Muslims from her range

[5.56blaster]

Ugly, but the way it should be for private business.

Yep. I don't see what's so hard to understand.

 

[wilcam47]

Ugly, but the way it should be for private business.

Its actually nice to see those signs...a lot of places around here have them. And its not for joking purposes!

 

[unclebuck]

you don't agree bigotry, racism and discrimination are all around us? do you live in a box? its everywhere everyday. the thing is I choose not to be around it. if someone doesn't want my money or my kind in their establishment then I take my money elsewhere. the damages from racism and bigotry and discrimination are what you allow them to be. there will always be someone willing to take your money. the one thing that bigotry and racism and discrimination cant beat is peoples greed.

You also said of bigotry, racism, and discrimination "its more covered up now but still there". The willingness to label one religion a threat because of a minority within that religion is a very open form of discrimination.

 

[44man]

You also said of bigotry, racism, and discrimination "its more covered up now but still there". The willingness to label one religion a threat because of a minority within that religion is a very open form of discrimination.

you mean like the Islamic state is discriminating against Christians? oh that's right, they don't like any Christians...maybe dead ones I guess. yep, plenty of discrimination, bigotry and racism world wide and here.

 

[unclebuck]

you don't agree bigotry, racism and discrimination are all around us? do you live in a box? its everywhere everyday. the thing is I choose not to be around it. if someone doesn't want my money or my kind in their establishment then I take my money elsewhere. the damages from racism and bigotry and discrimination are what you allow them to be. there will always be someone willing to take your money. the one thing that bigotry and racism and discrimination cant beat is peoples greed.

you mean like the Islamic state is discriminating against Christians? oh that's right, they don't like any Christians...maybe dead ones I guess. yep, plenty of discrimination, bigotry and racism world wide and here.

What kind of Muslims do the Christians like?

 

[Traveler]

What kind of Muslims do the Christians like?

I have no issue with Muslims that are not trying to kill me or mine, or destroy my country. I pray for their salvation.

I might even like a few. I don't know them all personally.

If they fly planes in to buildings, or burn people alive, it makes me cranky.

 

[44man]

What kind of Muslims do the Christians like?

well since I cant speak for all Christians.... can you speak for all islam? I do have an idea what the Islamic state thinks though.

personally as long as I don't have to deal with them and they are not terrorists I have no problem with them.

 

[kcbrown]

all I can hear while reading this is obozo hollarin "you didn't build that".

Then you are hearing the wrong thing. Obama's message is an attempt to the minimize the importance of an individual's work. My message is an attempt to show just how important everyone's work is. Others need your work just as much as you need theirs. Your work is just as important as theirs. That's what interdependence means.

what I rekon is you are young enough to have never really know what real independence is and what it felt like and what it is to build your own home or barn or roads or dig your own well ect. I now am less independent than I once was but if push came to shove I can make it without others for me and mine. I have the knowledge and the ability, although I am old now and cant do what I once did but I can teach others younger than me to do these things easily. I have worked with my hands and back my whole life and everything I have I got from the sweat of my brow. many others can say the same but many more can not.

I'm sure there are some things that you got strictly from the sweat of your brow and nothing else. The rest you got from exchanging your sweat of your brow for someone else's sweat of their brow, and then using the results of that for your own purpose. Your labor for their labor, plus additional labor of your own to accomplish your goals.

You act as if trade is somehow a bad thing. It's not. It's a very good thing. It's so good, in fact, that it's the reason we're here talking to each other right here, right now. The kind of technology behind this communication mechanism we're using simply cannot be built from scratch by a single person. A single person would not be able to fabricate from scratch (which includes mining the metals, etc. When I say "from scratch", I mean from scratch) the tools that would be needed to fabricate the components and assemble them into the computers we're now using to talk to each other (indeed, building the requisite tools would require many tool building iterations just to get the final tools down to the necessary precision, and I haven't even talked about the test equipment required), not to mention write all of the software from the ground up that makes it possible for us to talk on this forum. They could do some of that, of course. But they wouldn't be able to do all of it. They simply haven't the time in their lifetime to accomplish it, even if they did somehow manage to acquire the incredibly deep knowledge necessary.

you keep relying on others, I wont, but you go right ahead.

My point is that you rely on others without even knowing it. Your hubris is astonishing.

you also keep worrying about people wanting to keep with their own, I wont, but you go right ahead.

I have no issue with people wanting to keep with their own. If they want to keep with their own, then that's fine. I have a problem with them wanting to keep with their own while claiming to provide a service to the general public. You can't have it both ways. It's one or the other.

liberals always rub me the wrong way.

People who are hypocritical rub me the wrong way, liberal and conservative alike. Labels don't matter to me. Positions do, and logical consequences of those positions especially do. I expect logical consistency on the part of people's positions, and I'll call them out when they display lack thereof. Maybe that's a failing of mine. So be it.

 

[44man]

Then you are hearing the wrong thing.


I'm sure there are some things that you got strictly from the sweat of your brow and nothing else. The rest you got from exchanging your sweat of your brow for someone else's sweat of their brow, and then using the results of that for your own purpose. Your labor for their labor, plus additional labor of your own to accomplish your goals.

You act as if trade is somehow a bad thing. It's not. It's a very good thing. It's so good, in fact, that it's the reason we're here talking to each other right here, right now. The kind of technology behind this communication mechanism we're using simply cannot be built from scratch by a single person. A single person would not be able to fabricate from scratch (which includes mining the metals, etc. When I say "from scratch", I mean from scratch) the tools that would be needed to fabricate the components and assemble them into the computers we're now using to talk to each other (indeed, building the requisite tools would require many tool building iterations just to get the final tools down to the necessary precision, and I haven't even talked about the test equipment required), not to mention write all of the software from the ground up that makes it possible for us to talk on this forum. They could do some of that, of course. But they wouldn't be able to do all of it. They simply haven't the time in their lifetime to accomplish it, even if they did somehow manage to acquire the incredibly deep knowledge necessary.


My point is that you rely on others without even knowing it. Your hubris is astonishing.


I have no issue with people wanting to keep with their own. If they want to keep with their own, then that's fine. I have a problem with them wanting to keep with their own while claiming to provide a service to the general public. You can't have it both ways. It's one or the other.


People who are hypocritical rub me the wrong way, liberal and conservative alike. Labels don't matter to me. Positions do, and logical consequences of those positions especially do. I expect logical consistency on the part of people's positions, and I'll call them out when they display lack thereof. Maybe that's a failing of mine. So be it.

tis true I do barter and trade my work and knowledge for other peoples money. you have me there. and its true I don't have enough knowledge to make this computer. hell the only reason I have it is was given to me for doing a big job and getting it done early. the thing is if something happens I can provide for my family without this plastic box. although I wouldn't be able to computer talk to all yall, and many others cant. and someone like you would probably be amazed at what I have done with my two hand and the sweat of my brow. I have come from absolutely nothing to about as far as I want to go by working 47 of my 51 years. but that's beside the point.

and yes I sometimes have to rely on others and it makes me sick. and if you think I am a prideful person by just talking over the internets you should meet me in person. I am slam full of myself and what I do and what I have accomplished. everyone should be able to look back at everything they have done and be proud.

 

[kcbrown]

tis true I do barter and trade my work and knowledge for other peoples money. you have me there. and its true I don't have enough knowledge to make this computer. hell the only reason I have it is was given to me for doing a big job and getting it done early. the thing is if something happens I can provide for my family without this plastic box.

I don't doubt that. And, in fact, that's a good thing.

Even so, much of what you have and use is the direct result of the efforts of people who have sacrificed their ability to be truly independent so that they could be better at providing that which they provided. In doing so, what you got in trade for your own knowledge and efforts is better than it would otherwise have been.

My point isn't that your independence is bad (independence can indeed be quite a good thing, especially in worst-case circumstances). My point is that the lack of independence you belittle is not bad. It's a tradeoff that has made possible the bulk of the capabilities we now take for granted today.

although I wouldn't be able to computer talk to all yall, and many others cant. and someone like you would probably be amazed at what I have done with my two hand and the sweat of my brow. I have come from absolutely nothing to about as far as I want to go by working 47 of my 51 years. but that's beside the point.

and yes I sometimes have to rely on others and it makes me sick. and if you think I am a prideful person by just talking over the internets you should meet me in person. I am slam full of myself and what I do and what I have accomplished. everyone should be able to look back at everything they have done and be proud.

I completely agree. Justified pride is good. And, as applied here, that includes being proud of being able to do something really well even if it meant sacrificing one's ability to be truly independent.

I'm not attempting to belittle you, or to make you less proud of your accomplishments or of what you can accomplish, or any of that. That's what people in power do (Obama's a perfect example in this context with his "you didn't build that" comment), and it's maddening. No, I am only trying to convey the truth of the situation: we all stand on the shoulders of others, and we're all better off for it. We should be proud of our own accomplishments. But we should also be proud of the accomplishments of others, and thankful that they were willing to work so hard, just as we are, to provide the truly amazing things we can get today. The recognition that we stand on the shoulders of others does nothing to diminish the value of our own work, and it's a mistake to think that it does.