January "Modified" match

[JamesBailey]

I'm in with or without pullers. And I think there will be at least one other sling shooter, as well. (But we'll shoot on the F-targets, no problem)

I assume by sling shooter, you are referring to .223Rem ?

 

[jjbduke2004]

I assume by sling shooter, you are referring to .223Rem ?

No he means shooting High Power/Palma style with a sling, coat, and glove.

 

[BenL]

No he means shooting High Power/Palma style with a sling, coat, and glove.

Pretty cool. I've never seen that type of shooting at those distances.

 

[NateG]

JJB's right. But, just to add to the confusion, it'd probably be a .223 Remington for me this time. (In a tube gun) I've been wanting to play with re-seating a batch of ammo that just didn't shoot well at Perry. But, I'm a bit worried about the stability. The Miller formula has it on the margin, and going down to 20* might be a bit too much for it to stay nose-first. So, I might end up going to Fairfax Rod and gun and shooting the HP match instead and flailing around with my (other) tube gun in the rapid fire stages.

 

[MDCXD]

Dave something came up and I won't be able to make it to this match.

Wille is working on getting pullers for this match.

According to the QSC web site the fee for the match is 30.00 for the match and 20.00 for the puller.

 

[BenL]

Dave something came up and I won't be able to make it to this match.

Wille is working on getting pullers for this match.

According to the QSC web site the fee for the match is 30.00 for the match and 20.00 for the puller.

Thanks, Mike. Is that member's prices, or non-members?

 

[MDCXD]

Thanks, Mike. Is that member's prices, or non-members?

I don't know, the price's are from the QSC website with no difference between member or non member. Your guess is as good as mine, but I think member will probably be 20.00 for the match.

 

[JamesBailey]

JJB's right. But, just to add to the confusion, it'd probably be a .223 Remington for me this time. (In a tube gun) I've been wanting to play with re-seating a batch of ammo that just didn't shoot well at Perry. But, I'm a bit worried about the stability. The Miller formula has it on the margin, and going down to 20* might be a bit too much for it to stay nose-first. So, I might end up going to Fairfax Rod and gun and shooting the HP match instead and flailing around with my (other) tube gun in the rapid fire stages.

What twist is your barrel and what is the grain/length of the bullets you are using? And how fast can you push those .224's at the muzzle?

I was shooting .223Rem 1000yds at MCBQ a few months ago in rec fire using an 18" 7twist barrel with 80gr AMaxs and was having no problems holding the 8 ring. It was 35* with a good 7mph 9 oclock wind. I can get the 80gr AMaxs going at 2600fps MV.

Remember, a bullet becomes MORE stable the further it gets from the gun. This is because horizonal speed slows much faster than rotational speed, making the bullet more stable. Of course, this doesn't apply to the instability as the bullet goes sub-sonic.

 

[NateG]

It's a 1:7.5 twist, and I want to give the Berger 90VLDs another go. (I think the length is ~1.250") Or, the other load I'd shoot is the Berger 90BTs, which have been a lot more consistent. I'm pretty confident they'll stay supersonic, but cold air is denser, reducing the stability (greater overturning force) and the cold temperature reduces the muzzle velocity (slower reduces the overturning force, but also slows the rotation. These largely cancel each other out, but on balance, the bullet will be slightly less stable with lower muzzle velocity.) The end result is enough uncertainty as to whether or not I'll learn anything about how the loads shoot that I think I'll go freeze at Fairfax's XTC match instead.

 

[JamesBailey]

It's a 1:7.5 twist, and I want to give the Berger 90VLDs another go. (I think the length is ~1.250")

That bullet is ridiculous tough to stabilize. And 7.5 twist is far from ideal. 6.5 is more like it (which puts a whole lot of spin drift into bullet). Plus you need to have your seating depth absolutely perfect - very narrow window there. If you can get it shooting right, you have a bullet that can hang with any of the .308's, but that is a big IF. I'm not up to speed on the 90BTs, in theory they should be less sensitive to depth and not as long therefore not requiring as much twist.

I think your plan of skipping the F-class for the XTC is the right move. The good news is that QSC is having a bunch of long-range clinics in the spring, including load development. Bring your 90gr VLD to that and get it squared away right - you could have a real kick ass platform with it

 

[NateG]

The current thinking among those who have tried to get the 90s working in the .223 (with the US Palma rules now allowing .223s, there has been some interest in it), is that the old advice of needing really fast twist barrels isn't so. I've shot some decent scores (195+) with the Berger 90VLDs (the JLKs are said to be much more finiky as to stability. Why? I have no idea) in a 1:7 service rifle. Jerry Tierney out in California, one of the real instigators of the .223 as a LR caliber, was using a 1:7.7 Krieger. He found that it was easier to get them to shoot than a 1:7.

So, I went with the 1:7.5 as a result. (1:7-1:7.5 seems to be where most folks who get the 90VLDs working end up) I think I may have found a nice seating depth, which is actually jumping a good bit. (As are my 105VLDs in my 6BRX) I haven't had any obvious stability issues (nothing failing to reach the target, for example). But, I haven't shot it in 20* weather, either. (The Miller formula says Sg is about 1.2 for "normal" conditions, drops to about 1.08 at 15*--well into the "exciting" realm)

The 90BTs are, IIRC, almost the same length as the VLDs. They are much less jump sensitive (hooray!) and shoot quite well. The downside is that they aren't the incredibly aerodynamic bullet the VLD is, (Which has a higher BC than any of the 6mm, even the 115gr, as measured by Litz) and they're a bit tougher to get up to speed. But, they shoot well.

 

[buffalobob]

going down to 20* might be a bit too much for it to stay nose-first.

It will be interesting, being as I think my 308 load may not want to work at those temperatures.

 

[Dirtball]

It will be interesting, being as I think my 308 load may not want to work at those temperatures.

Bullets don't know how cold it is, UNLESS you tell them!!!

 

[Prospector]

Guys,

Just to let you know.We have at least 6 pullers lined up for tomorrow and most likely 8.We need to get good turnouts for any of these shoots because we are going to pay the pullers whether we have a decent showing or not.

I know people can always find reasons not to shoot but if we get pullers we need to find reasons to shoot.

These things are hard enough to make happen without the headache of no shooters.If Ya'll want these shoots to continue I suggest a good turnout.This is the main reason me and Willie let people pull,don't matter what kind of turnout we have.We have shot a match with 8 shooters before but that don't calculate with paid pullers.If we don't pay them guess what they just quit showing up to pull.I don't blame them,there out there to earn a little money and should get paid if they show.

Hope all ya'll can make it tomorrow.

Me and Willie will be there.

Steve

 

[BenL]

I'll be there...

The calender says 7:00am reg in the clubhouse. Is that right, or in the parking lot across from range 4?

 

[Jerry M]

Bullets don't know how cold it is, UNLESS you tell them!!!

At long range the point of impact will be different, due to the density of the air.

Good luck

Jerry