Lead Safety Question

[Van]

Hey all,

I'm new to shooting and concerned about the supposed toxic environment of indoor ranges. Here are some links to the articles I have read. I'm curious about your opinions regarding this matter. I know it's probably of special interest to those of us with children. Has anyone had a problem with this? Does anyone use 'non-toxic' ammo? I'm guessing that newer ranges like Freestate have a better chance of being well ventilated and properly cleaned, but to my knowledge, there is no way of keeping them toxin free.
Anyway, I'm wondering if this is a real concern, or something cooked up by anti-gun folks.

http://www.health.ny.gov/environmental/lead/target_shooting/
http://the-range.biz/Nontoxic_Load_Development_7Apr06.pdf
http://www.fieldandstream.com/forums/hunting/whitetails/non-toxic-projectiles
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/ranges/
http://www.lni.wa.gov/Safety/Research/files/lead_range.pdf
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-260776.html
http://www.abcbirds.org/newsandreports/releases/110520.html
http://www.lni.wa.gov/Safety/Research/files/lead_range.pdf

 

[Mooseman]

Thanks for the info. The club that I am a member of is thinking of building an indoor range. I personally feel that unless you lived in an indoor range, there would not be much of an issue. Thanks for the links. I will read them.

 

[WeaponsCollector]

Every range is different. Some indoor ranges have great ventilation and some have little or none(like Maryland Small Arms Range). Last time I went there I got black boogers and a bad sinus infection from their poor ventilation. I try to shoot outside now as much as possible and only go to indoor ranges when they aren't busy if at all. There just aren't many public ranges in S. MD where I live so I don't have much to choose from without driving hours away.

 

[Second Amendment]

I survived years of the old Gunpowder Indoor Range (Now Horst and McCann). There was about zero ventilation there until Horst took it over. Even well ventilated ranges will get cloudy when all of the lanes are blasting. You should be fine as a recreational shooter if you frequent modern facilities like Freestate and On Target.

 

[Crab Bait]

I have never had an issue, but with a 3 year old I take precautions. I use d-lead wipes, hair and body wash, and laundry detergent. I really don't think it would be a problem unless I was at the range daily - maybe not a problem unless I worked cleaning it. I didn't check all your articles, but I read quite a bit, bought the mentioned products, and haven't had any issues.

http://www.labsafety.com/d-lead-cleaning-products_24541404/

 

[Van]

Thanks for the links Crab. Interesting stuff http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1262

 

[shooting again]

I wouldn't put much value on lack of "issues" so far. Lead is one of those elements that accumulate in the biological system over time, so it can take years for 1) the Pb level to build up to a concentration of concern and 2) the biological system to react. You're wise to have a greater concern for a 3 year old since a young child has less body mass, which means the same intake will produce a greater concentration, and the neurological system is more susceptible to damage since it is still developing. Also note that the child will have 20-30 years longer for the exposure to take effect.

Keep reading and use common sense, like using ranges that are well ventilated and washing skin and clothes especially when you were exposed to that environment for several hours. Note that many exposure limits are based on a working environment, meaning 40hr/wk for 40 years, so check the units for any values listed. A couple of range visits a month will never come close to that kind of overall exposure.

 

[C-Par]

You guys are making me nervous. I have two kids 2 and 4.

I do about 3-4 range visits a month when I can. I'm going to look into the soap. I normally just wash my hands but now I will definitively shower and change clothes.

 

[Van]

Disposable gloves and shoe covers seem like the easiest thing to do. However, I'm assume that one would get laughed out of the range.

 

[cyclrcr]

Read all the links and all I can say is I want to see the numbers.

I don't buy into to much anymore unless I see some hard data. If there is a study out there providing data of how much lead is brought home/inhaled at an indoor range, that would be valuable in this discussion. Plus what are the acceptable levels of lead that are considered dangerous in the human body? If the exposure rate is very low, you shouldn't have much to worry about it.

Now if you want to take precautions through the use of the special soap and changing clothes, you are that much better protected.

Hell I'd like to see a study on foundry workers who work with molten lead. I would like to see what precautions they are taking work wise and how much lead they bring home. Also in that study, what are the lead levels in their children. This would give you a worst case situation and then relate that back to indoor ranges.

 

[K-Romulus]

Yes, it's an issue, but can be managed. I used to shrug over the whole issue . . . until my wife got pregnant. After her constant haranging, I got some lead test kits from Home Depot and swabbed my basement workbench area. The swaps lit up bright pink like a runway landing light. Same for the floor right by the bench, which means it got on my shoes, and therefore potentially around the house. I tested little-trafficked basement areas and got a negative. After cleaning the workbench area with a bucket of soapy water and a cloth, the tests were negative.

As for studies, CDC has a whole page of info on the issue: http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/ranges/
Here is a press release from the CDC on one study:http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5423a1.htm
Closer to home, the Balto. County PD has a page with firing range/lead information: http://www.baltimorecountymd.gov/Agencies/police/trainingsection/range/lead_poisoning.html

Among the studies I have seen, the FBI range in Quantico was tested, both indoors and out. Among the conclusions was that indoor exposure could be reduced by having a good ventilation system and by using FMJ bullets, but eliminating lead altogether would be the best option. Outdoor ranges had the same issue, believe it or not, because "ventilation" was dependent on wind conditions. No wind, or wind in your face = bad ventilation = more lead exposure. The FBI trainee dorm carpets were tested and the researchers found high lead dust levels, attributed to shoe contamination at the ranges.

There is a fair amount of lead-safe ammo out there, now that LE/MIL is paying attention to the issue. The only variable is cost; LE can get such ammo pretty cheap from Kieslers, but the rest of have to search for deals. http://www.kiesler.com/

Most manufacturers have lead-safe pistol ammo, such as the UMC leadless line, the Winchester WinClean line, Magtech CleanRange, CCI/Speer Cleanfire, Fiocchi Leadless, etc. Some of these companies sell frangible loads under these lines, so pay attention to the description; frangible will be significantly more expensive than TMJ.

Several of the same companies sell lead-free rifle ammo, but usually a frangible load. Some, like Remington, have developed a jacketed frangible rifle round that they market to LE (available cheaply from Kieslers'): http://remingtonmilitary.com/Ammunition/Rifle Carbine/FRANGIBLE.aspx I scored some of this ammo a few years ago and had good success with short range use, but accuracy from my rifles was not so great (maybe due to barrel twist).

Earlier, I was using a load that Federal made for .mil, but had to discontinue. CheaperthanDirt has started selling an alleged new Federal lead-free round that is based on Mk 318 : http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM283-1.html. The customer service dept says the round has lead-free primers. I tried some out this weekend and was pretty impressed.

My takeaway from the studies was that YOUR ammo will have the greatest impact on YOUR lead exposure as long as your range has good vents. There will still be lead dust getting kicked around, so you will have to be aware that your shoes and pants are probably picking up some lead dust. As for dealing with the take home issue, dedicate some shoes and clothes as "range use," change them before leaving the range, wear a hat that goes with the range clothes, wash your face and hands, and get a quick shower (preferably at the range if possible). Wash the range clothes separately from your regular laundry, then run an empty load afterwards to try and wash any lead dust out of the machine.

 

[KMK1862]

Yes, it's an issue, but can be managed. I used to shrug over the whole issue . . . until my wife got pregnant. After her constant haranging, I got some lead test kits from Home Depot and swabbed my basement workbench area. The swaps lit up bright pink like a runway landing light. Same for the floor right by the bench, which means it got on my shoes, and therefore potentially around the house. I tested little-trafficked basement areas and got a negative. After cleaning the workbench area with a bucket of soapy water and a cloth, the tests were negative.

Was this your reloading bench or gun cleaning bench?

 

[Billcw]

I worked on a range for 4 years and continued using that range for the job i am at now .. I went through 2 rebuilds of the range and air system as well as maintenance a daily bases .

My lead levels are still low to this day and I get them checked do to my job .

If you are a regular shooter just keep in mind to wash up after you are done shooting . If you want to go farther then when you get home change your clothes and take a cool shower .

Also go to ranges that do have good ventilation and if you are going to be in there for a few hours take a break every so ften to get some air

 

[Van]

Wow, great info Romulus. This would be a non issue if all ammo was lead free. Maybe one day that will happen. All your ideas are good ones and will surely help relieve some anxiety if followed.
By the way, how is the ventilation at Freestate? I know they allow all kinds of ammo there, so I hope it's good. Anyone know if they sell lead free ammo? I'm assuming that if you load your handgun up with lead free rounds, your hands and face will be a lot less likely to get hit with lead dust and fumes. Correct?

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...nounces-lead-free-22lr-and-22-magnum-and-223/

http://www.cabelas.com/handgun-ammu...-EB04-E111-804A-A8C6AF702B72&mr:referralID=NA

 

[Second Amendment]

Wow, great info Romulus. This would be a non issue if all ammo was lead free. Maybe one day that will happen. All your ideas are good ones and will surely help relieve some anxiety if followed.
By the way, how is the ventilation at Freestate? I know they allow all kinds of ammo there, so I hope it's good. Anyone know if they sell lead free ammo? I'm assuming that if you load your handgun up with lead free rounds, your hands and face will be a lot less likely to get hit with lead dust and fumes. Correct?

Freestate's air system is ok. On Target's is better, but the downside is sometimes the targets dance around due to the air blowing. I don't know, maybe they fixed that problem. I don't go there anymore because Freestate is closer.

Hap Baker has a semi-outdoor pistol range. It's naturally ventilated, but you have to put up with the weather hot or cold.

 

[Crab Bait]

Being careful is good, panic is not.

I'm sure I'm not the only one here who wore used shotshells on their fingers and liked to play with fishing weights as a kid.

Adn not I'am any worsted fur where.

 

[K-Romulus]

Was this your reloading bench or gun cleaning bench?

The general cleaning/armorer-ing tabletop area.

Van: yes, I understand that what you shoot is what gets on you hands and face the most, and probably your lungs, too.

 

[DCSCO]

That might explain my weight gains.

 

[Shamr0ck]

for the air rifle team my daughter shoots on, the coach has a very strict rule that the children ALL wash their hands in COLD water as soon as they are done shooting. Cold water helps keep the pores closed and hence reduce the risk of lead absorption.

Will check on the Lead wipes...

 

[erwos]

Eh, I have my one year old tested for lead at every check up, and he's fine so far. Just take normal precautions - before you manhandle your kids, change and take a shower. I think there's a valid concern here, but I'm way more worried about him picking up a stray .22LR cartridge and eating it...