Live Update of Dealers Release Policy

[Gbh]

Questions for folks here:

How exactly does the MSP indicate a ND? And where is it on the 77R (pink copy)?
Does the 4473 (fed form) go to the MSP or is that held at the FFL's (never goes to the MSP)?

Here is a recent email exchange with one of the FFL's... Excluded headers, names and dates. My inquiry at bottom and his response at top.
***********************************************

yes.....they fill that in after I send the paperwork back to them...

Hi,

Question though. It is blank in the MSP section. Is that normal?

Sometimes, dealers don't press very hard on the form when writing the number and the customer copy is barely readable. I high-contrast scan mine to be able to read all of the info and save it as a pdf. Is it possible it is there but really faint? (On the margin where it is printed NTN- DATE-)

 

[ibang1]

The Gun Shop posted they will be calling people!

 

[L0gic]

I have a question.... One dealer says they will release with a previous ND. My pink forms don't have a NTN on them (but almost all of them went the full cycle) How do I prove a previous ND?

I went back and looked at my mom's pink slip and either her NTN is so faint it did not transfer to the pink slip or they (MSAR) did not write it on hers at all, and she waited the full 52 days to get her call.

 

[clutchNthrottle]

The Gun Shop posted they will be calling people!

It's peanutberetta jelly time!

 

[smokey]

you guys get the june 14th letter yet?

not sure if it's been posted anywhere on here yet or if it belongs in here. I figured I'd put it in anyway so you know more of what's being sent out.

i also recently discovered that there is a form ffl's can use to have the MSP resubmit a NICS check if the previous one expired. When it was used recently, the MSP responded back in 4 hours with a new NICS check. I'm wondering if this is a way to get an NTN and NICS check through MSP as POC on the 4473 without having a disposition returned as ND for the 77r

 

[Baltimorejake]

I purchased my 4th firearm from the cop shop in early Feb and still nothing from them or MSP. According to the owner of the cop shop "Sam" it's not his problem. I paid for the fire arm in full in good faith and I am treated like some kinda skell dirt bag.

 

[Mr H]

OK... 2 days mail each way........

so...

8 days is now only 66 days?? AND it forces dealers to use a computer-based system (that could mysteriously "go down" at any time)...

Only in Maryland.

 

[Abacab]

I purchased my 4th firearm from the cop shop in early Feb and still nothing from them or MSP. According to the owner of the cop shop "Sam" it's not his problem. I paid for the fire arm in full in good faith and I am treated like some kinda skell dirt bag.

Sounds more like them. If they released on time I would keel over.

 

[MJD438]

you guys get the june 14th letter yet?
View attachment 89307
not sure if it's been posted anywhere on here yet or if it belongs in here. I figured I'd put it in anyway so you know more of what's being sent out.

i also recently discovered that there is a form ffl's can use to have the MSP resubmit a NICS check if the previous one expired. When it was used recently, the MSP responded back in 4 hours with a new NICS check. I'm wondering if this is a way to get an NTN and NICS check through MSP as POC on the 4473 without having a disposition returned as ND for the 77r

Interesting - take away a long-standing option that will then require dealers to spend more money on resources (not saying that faxing is bad, but it will be a cost for those dealers that have not invested in phone lines to run faxes). Then threaten that faxing will only be available for a short while, which will result in more expense to the dealers as they will have to add compute and Internet access resources in order to comply with this state's bassackwards rights deprivation schema.

 

[smokey]

Interesting - take away a long-standing option that will then require dealers to spend more money on resources (not saying that faxing is bad, but it will be a cost for those dealers that have not invested in phone lines to run faxes). Then threaten that faxing will only be available for a short while, which will result in more expense to the dealers as they will have to add compute and Internet access resources in order to comply with this state's bassackwards rights deprivation schema.

yup, more of the democrat "pass it to see what's in it" kind've stuff.

 

[Jiman]

Gunrunners Update

Just went by GR, and Fred told me that until they hear back from their attorney, there will be no releases.

He said that the issue is even though MD has said yes, they can't figure how to properly fill out the Fed Side....a "number" apparently.

He said if/when their lawyer figures it out they'll call everyone cause their sick of holding on too all the guns.

Maybe one of the good folks here with more knowledge than me, can give them a call to help them through it.

 

[scottp999]

Just went by GR, and Fred told me that until they hear back from their attorney, there will be no releases.

He said that the issue is even though MD has said yes, they can't figure how to properly fill out the Fed Side....a "number" apparently.

He said if/when their lawyer figures it out they'll call everyone cause their sick of holding on too all the guns.

Maybe one of the good folks here with more knowledge than me, can give them a call to help them through it.

Thanks for the update even though it sucks. Fred told me last Friday they would be releasing this week after they got the paperwork procedure figured out. Guess they have not figured it out.

 

[Rimfire]

Recorded message updated to apr 5/6 and mar 24 for reviews. Last Friday it said apr 1/2, has anyone seen an apr app come back yet?

 

[Vile Shadow]

Got a call from Clyde's sport shop to come p/u my .357. Apparently my recent DC and ND from another shop was good enough for him to let it go.

 

[ianmcall]

TOP PRIORITY MISSION:
We need an open letter from the ATF to the Maryland FFLs directing them on 8th day release procedure in order to stay compliant of federal law. Specifically how to complete a 4473 on the 8th day without NICS.

Contact the Firearms
Industry Programs Branch at fipb@atf.gov or by phone at (202) 648-7190.

Ask for an updated Open Letter to Maryland FFLs just like they have done for California in April of 2013

California Open Letter

Old 1998 Maryland Open Letter

 

[smokey]

TOP PRIORITY MISSION:
We need an open letter from the ATF to the Maryland FFLs directing them on 8th day release procedure in order to stay compliant of federal law. Specifically how to complete a 4473 on the 8th day without NICS.

Call your contacts at the ATF, the maryland field offices, send them emails. Let get on this!

****I am speaking as an individual and not on behalf of basspro****
The fed side of things is what is holding up basspro from my understanding. It's my perspective that they understand they're in the clear with the state, but feel it violates federal law to release on the 8th day without the NTN. Here's some interesting observations I've made myself regarding that...

If you call a long gun in to the FBI, they give you a "proceed", "denied" or "delayed". Before they give you these, they give you an NTN. If you get delayed, they give you the date you may proceed with the transfer. If you forward paperwork to the MSP, you essentially get nothing to write on page 2 of the 4473 until the disposition shows up in the fax machine. On the disposition, the date is usually within the past week or so for when the NICS check is done. This seems different from PICS where everything is pretty much handled just like if you contacted FBI NICS, immediate NTN # and all. The good thing about them waiting until the week they're done processing the state stuff before doing the NICS check is that the 4473 NICS check isn't expired like it would be after 30 days. Of course the bad part is the ffl has nothing to put on page 2 of the 4473...thus lays the problem with releasing early.

This needs to be cleared up for them to release early.

...Also, if things are finally getting officially cleared up on the state and federal levels...it would be cool if there was official letter clarifying that md FFL's are allowed to sell long guns to people living in all 50 states and not just the contiguous ones. Official guidance from a state/federal agency may get done what doesn't get done by the words of a single person alerting the FFL to that fact.

 

[clutchNthrottle]

TOP PRIORITY MISSION:
We need an open letter from the ATF to the Maryland FFLs directing them on 8th day release procedure in order to stay compliant of federal law. Specifically how to complete a 4473 on the 8th day without NICS.

uh, yeah... that's what I was saying 6 days and 208 posts ago:

http://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=2514872&postcount=1189

 

[ianmcall]

uh, yeah... that's what I was saying 6 days and 208 posts ago:

http://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=2514872&postcount=1189

Ive been saying it for a month now. Lets stop saying it and get on it!

 

[iH8DemLibz]

Bass Pro is claiming it's a Federal issue because they don't want to tell their, no longer, loyal customers it's an MSP issue after MSP said it's OK to release without a Background Check.

In short, Bass Pro is waiting for the MSP.

To be more precise, Bass Pro is waiting for the Background Check to come back from the MSP.

And while your post is appreciated, Bass Pro is full of it. If Bass Pro customers NEVER get their guns, Bass Pro is more than fine with that scenerio. The people who will no longer shop at Bass Pro will continue to get the shaft from Bass Pro just as long as it keeps Bass Pro safe.

I hope this qualifies as a Dealer Update and not a De-rail.

 

[smokey]

Bass Pro is claiming it's a Federal issue because they don't want to tell their, no longer, loyal customers it's an MSP issue after MSP said it's OK to release without a Background Check.

In short, Bass Pro is waiting for the MSP.

To be more precise, Bass Pro is waiting for the Background Check to come back from the MSP.

And while your post is appreciated, Bass Pro is full of it. If Bass Pro customers NEVER get their guns, Bass Pro is more than fine with that scenerio. The people who will no longer shop at Bass Pro will continue to get the shaft just as long as it keeps Bass Pro safe.

I hope this qualifies as a Dealer Update and not a De-rail.

nope, still a de-rail. I did let people know what the speed bump was that is the reason why they don't feel comfortable releasing without the disposition as I see it from a fly on the wall's perspective.

FFL's gain NOTHING from holding people's guns longer than they need to. It ticks people off and wastes storage space/manpower. Basspro has raised a lot of money for the shooting world and continues to support groups like the boyscouts with materials and fundraising opportunities. I've personally seen a store manager that hired me give up a couple thousand rounds of his own .22lr to the boyscouts and even gave up some 9mm he was going to hold to a customer that asked for it when the store was running low. They challenged 77r3 when it came out and would absolutely release your gun if their legal team felt comfortable that they wouldn't get penalized for it.

Colonel, if you'd like your gun the most productive way to spend your time is by supporting MSI and to now clarify the federal process to release without an NTN. I'll work alongside you to try to clarify that and put ALL FFL's minds at ease in releasing on the 8th day, not just basspro. I'd like to get a few more guns myself and don't want to wait either. There's currently a LOT of basspro employees waiting for guns in the cage right there with you. One lead I know with metrosexual tendencies has probably 20 guns locked up that he can't take home. His pink taurus applejack judge is one of the ones he would like more than anything to take with him. You think it's frustrating for you, imagine having to walk past your guns you can't take home every day as you work. He spends his free time ordering mags from botach and watching my little pony reruns. He's a wreck.