M4 Configuration VS. "Modern full railed" AR's

[C&RTactical]

VS.

Preferences and screams of Mall Ninja aside. Objectively, I have found the second one easier to shoot and use, but still love my M4 config I have. Also what is the name for something like the second rifle? I just been using the term full railed. My google fu is weak because I do not have a name for the second config. Also just from seeing how the history of one carbine went to the next one. Who else owns both or has thoughts on objectively which is better? I see a lot of instructors in the civilian world advocating the second style of AR. I have yet to see enough footage of Police and SF using the second configuration. A lot of the times it is M4's, but the general excuse is that is what they are issued. As if they have no say or option to getting something more flexible to them.

Anyway this is just my mind dump on a little bit of history or nonsense. I just have not found a better way of putting it into text here. Feel free to groan about how this topic has been done to death or actually address a different angle. Which I might be failing to do with my current blathering mind dump.

 

[Wayne1one]

I really like the Steve Fisher Sentinal rifle, I'm into the longer handguard. 14" would've been perfect 15" too long for me. But the rest of the gun seems great. Watched a couple of videos on them, their solid.

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

 

[outrider58]

The M4 is more of a true combat version assuming that it has drop in rails and I would prefer that in a combat situation. The bottom rifle is more of a comp/sport type deal. More of a thorough bread where as the M4 is the quarter horse. Both have their appeal and shortcomings. I need an M4 now I'll have to reconfigure one of my ARs.

 

[clandestine]

If you want rugged, go with a fixed FSB. Floated rails with sights can change point of impact if subject to hits or drops.

 

[alucard0822]

Basically cheap, light and reliable vs versatile, fast and adaptable. Most of it comes down to application and budget, not just for optics and rails, but more advanced training to get the most out of them

 

[aquaman]

heavy is good, heavy is reliable

 

[C&RTactical]

Y9u want rugged, go with a fixed FSB. Floated rails with sights can chang point of impact if subject to hits or drops.

Really? Now that is something that I do not remember or people writing off being a problem. Floated rails getting hit out of shape enough to make the irons inaccurate? Have you found any companies that have managed to relieve that issue? Given what I feel off the A2 FSB, it would sooner snap than bend from hitting or dropping stuff. I mean with stupid amounts of force, not just dropping it out of a helicopter or running it over with a Humvee.

 

[mopar92]

The way I've always thought of them, is that the first is a "mil-spec" rifle. Made to a spec for reliability, durability, ease of use and fairly flexible.
The second has been described to me as a reconaissance rifle, and for the most part better for the average end user who isn't going to be in trenches or holding a base from the enemy. Easily adaptable to the task/mission at handalthough as Chad noted, because it lacks the fixed FSB you can lose the zero on your BUIS, but with the general proliferation of quality optics its not the glaring issue it could be. (Although I err on the side of caution and have a fixed FSB). Also, I hate quadrails with a passion.

 

[outrider58]

Really? Now that is something that I do not remember or people writing off being a problem. Floated rails getting hit out of shape enough to make the irons inaccurate? Have you found any companies that have managed to relieve that issue? Given what I feel off the A2 FSB, it would sooner snap than bend from hitting or dropping stuff. I mean with stupid amounts of force, not just dropping it out of a helicopter or running it over with a Humvee.

A buis will take far less abuse than will a fsb. no matter what.

 

[jimbobborg]

A buis will take far less abuse than will a fsb. no matter what.

True, but how many people are running a carry handle upper receiver?

 

[Semper Noctem]

heavy is good, heavy is reliable

If it does not work, you can always hit him with it...

 

[clandestine]

Really? Now that is something that I do not remember or people writing off being a problem. Floated rails getting hit out of shape enough to make the irons inaccurate? Have you found any companies that have managed to relieve that issue? Given what I feel off the A2 FSB, it would sooner snap than bend from hitting or dropping stuff. I mean with stupid amounts of force, not just dropping it out of a helicopter or running it over with a Humvee.

True, but how many people are running a carry handle upper receiver?

A Fixed Carry Handle and Taper Pinned FSB will take more abuse that a long rail system. I have pictures I show students in class of bent and cracked rails.

It has gotten worse because companies keep trying to make things super light, which means its more likely to get damaged.

 

[Z_Man]

i have 2 rifles that are almost exactly what you are asking about. I have a bone stock 6721 and a more "custom" AR with a rifle length (15") quad rail (this rifle also has a magpul ACS-L butt stock). I like the long rail, as it is more comfortable to grab and hold onto. the standard carbine feels smaller, especially with the butt stock not extended. I have a 1-4x on the quad railed AR, and I have no optic currently on the 6721. the 67221 has a sling, and I haven't even bothered with a sling for the other rifle, as I would never use it with one. illustrates the different intended uses. If SHTF and I can only take one rifle, I'm taking the standard carbine.... although I'd probably take the 1-4 off the other rifle as it is in a QD mount.

as far as reliability... the "custom" rifle required some effort, and work, and help to be what I would call reliable. to me reliable is 1000 rounds of (sometimes rapid) fire without any issues. not achieving half of that that is what prompted making the first rifle a "custom" rifle. the 6721 has had 0 hiccups since I've had it, and I have about 600 rounds through it in 2 range trips.

 

[clandestine]

You can still have a long FF handguard and a pinned FSB. Setup a 16" gun as a dissipator. The FSB will be taper pinned and you have a low pro gas block under the handguards. The negative to that is when you have to replace the gas tube, its NOT easy unless your FF Rail can be removed without taking off the FSB and muzzle device.

 

[OrbitalEllipses]

heavy is good, heavy is reliable

Ounces are pounds, pounds are pain.

 

[tkd4life]

True, but how many people are running a carry handle upper receiver?

That is why the A2 is such a nice set up. Granted, it's a trade off with having optics, but I've got a precision build AR that I would use for distance. I would never consider my precision AR a battle rifle. My A2 on the other hand, absolutely.

 

[photoracer]

The first thing I did after taking delivery of my A2 6.8 SPC upper was remove everything from the barrel nut forward and replaced it all with "better" parts. Samson Evo 15" FF handguard, YHM gas block, and Wilson Combat Accu-Tac flash hider. Was going to replace the barrel later with a Wilson 18" Recon fluted profile but the 20" it came with is pretty accurate. I hate Delta rings.

 

[outrider58]

I will hold to post #3

 

[Straightbolt]

Y9u want rugged, go with a fixed FSB. Floated rails with sights can chang point of impact if subject to hits or drops.

True for the BUIS but flat top AR's were made for optics. So if your optics fail and you drop your rifle down a cliff your F'ed
I prefer the rail all the way out to the end of the barrel in the OP.
Gives a greater distance between the front and rear sight and helps with accuracy.
I tend to not drop my rifles and bumps/hits have never affected POI for me.
I really like this one but the price is North of what it should be now.https://www.lwrci.com/p-839-lwrci-di.aspx

 

[bitterkenny]

I think we'll need to have a definition of "better." In my context, I'll simplify the question to be which configuration would I have, if I could only have one. I'll pick the M4 configuration for sure.

It's definitely more comfortable and faster for me to shoot configuration 2 then the mil-spec M4 configuration (well, until the rail gets too hot...) but I think there's a lot of be said for general mil-spec parts availability. These speciality rails are rather expensive, often require proprietary barrel nuts, and even tools and processes to assemble. I don't think I like having to deal with that as much as knowing that any competent armorer, with a parts bin, can get my M4-style rifle running again easily and cheaply (relativity speaking of course.)