Maryland legalization of marijuana & presidential pardon and carry permits...

[Tiff380]

So now that Maryland has voted to legalize marijuana I'm wondering what that will do to the carry permit questions since any conviction of a drug-related offense makes you a prohibited person.

My dilemma has raised more questions than answers when looking into "prohibited persons"and this legalization has raised even more.

20 years ago I was convicted in federal court of a class B misdemeanor of possession of marijuana. It was connected with no other charges and carries a maximum of 6 months (I didn't have to serve any time.) The amount was so small it would not even have covered the bottom of a sweet and low packet but I was on Greenbelt Parkway so that made it a federal case and I was convicted. I haven't thought about this in so many years until recently looking into getting my carry permit here in Maryland. Reading "prohibited persons"says anyone convicted of possession and that would be me it seems. Federal does not like to expunge and I do not believe that I'm able to expunge it. Now on October 6th Biden pardoned everyone with simple marijuana possession conviction (federal). I fall under that. Upon reaching out to MSP and having several emails go back and forth they would not tell me whether or not I was still a prohibited person. It didn't make a whole lot of sense to me that the people who give out the licenses were unable to tell me if a specific charge (federal class B misdemeanor for marijuana possession) that now has a presidential pardon would still make me a prohibited person. It's incredibly frustrating. Now I'm wondering what this legalization of marijuana will do. I know that Maryland will hold out of state charges to their own standards but will it now work in someone's favor as well? Will Maryland hold their standards to federal charge now that it will no longer be a criminal offense? I have so many questions but short of hiring a lawyer which I can't afford anyway it seems I won't get any answers anytime soon.

 

[eruby]

.... I haven't thought about this in so many years until recently looking into getting my carry permit here in Maryland. Reading "prohibited persons"says anyone convicted of possession and that would be me it seems. Federal does not like to expunge and I do not believe that I'm able to expunge it. Now on October 6th Biden pardoned everyone with simple marijuana possession conviction (federal). I fall under that. Upon reaching out to MSP and having several emails go back and forth they would not tell me whether or not I was still a prohibited person. It didn't make a whole lot of sense to me that the people who give out the licenses were unable to tell me if a specific charge (federal class B misdemeanor for marijuana possession) that now has a presidential pardon would still make me a prohibited person. It's incredibly frustrating. Now I'm wondering what this legalization of marijuana will do. I know that Maryland will hold out of state charges to their own standards but will it now work in someone's favor as well? Will Maryland hold their standards to federal charge now that it will no longer be a criminal offense? I have so many questions but short of hiring a lawyer which I can't afford anyway it seems I won't get any answers anytime soon.

Where do you see "convicted of possession"?

Here are the MD, and Fed prohibitions (from the MSP website, may not be 100% correct)

https://mdsp.maryland.gov/Documents/State%20Prohibitors.pdf

https://mdsp.maryland.gov/Documents/Federal%20Prohibitors.pdf

I don't see it.

202 years is a long time ago, and it was a small amount.

Permits have been approved for DUIs, assaults, and other 'crimes'

Seems to me you'd have a very good chance of being approved. Just disclose everything, and do not lie.


And welcome aboard! Perhaps go to the Introductions forum, and post up so we can know you better:

Introductions

New members, sound off!

www.mdshooters.com

 

[Tiff380]

Where do you see "convicted of possession"?

Here are the MD, and Fed prohibitions (from the MSP website, may not be 100% correct)

https://mdsp.maryland.gov/Documents/State%20Prohibitors.pdf

https://mdsp.maryland.gov/Documents/Federal%20Prohibitors.pdf

I don't see it.

202 years is a long time ago, and it was a small amount.

Permits have been approved for DUIs, assaults, and other 'crimes'

Seems to me you'd have a very good chance of being approved. Just disclose everything, and do not lie.


And welcome aboard! Perhaps go to the Introductions forum, and post up so we can know you better:

Introductions

New members, sound off!

www.mdshooters.com

It's number three. That's a lot of money to put out for class fingerprints and application just to be denied in the end. I need to know first before doing all that and they won't tell me. It says right there "convicted of a crime involving possession".

 

[RFBfromDE]

I'd wait it out.

How do you think all those "Medical Marijuana" cardholders think about being excluded now that recreational use will be the law of the land?

 

[lazarus]

Where do you see "convicted of possession"?

Here are the MD, and Fed prohibitions (from the MSP website, may not be 100% correct)

https://mdsp.maryland.gov/Documents/State%20Prohibitors.pdf

https://mdsp.maryland.gov/Documents/Federal%20Prohibitors.pdf

I don't see it.

202 years is a long time ago, and it was a small amount.

Permits have been approved for DUIs, assaults, and other 'crimes'

Seems to me you'd have a very good chance of being approved. Just disclose everything, and do not lie.


And welcome aboard! Perhaps go to the Introductions forum, and post up so we can know you better:

Introductions

New members, sound off!

www.mdshooters.com

Ditto there.

Per DOJ

"A pardon is an expression of the President’s forgiveness. It does not signify innocence or expunge the conviction. It does, however, remove civil disabilities—such as restrictions on the right to vote, to hold office, or to sit on a jury—that are imposed because of the pardoned conviction. It may also be helpful in obtaining licenses, bonding, or employment. "

And possession is not lifelong prohibiting. I can't recall what you deal with for drug offenses, but for example the habitual drunkard standard is, IIRC, 2 convictions of a DUI (I think public intoxication may also count?) within 3 years disqualify you. So long as you have been clean for 3 years since your last conviction, you can possess again. Now if you were talking about losing your rights or getting them back for Alcohol use, I'd consult an actual lawyer on that as I might have the time/convictions count wrong. But even a single conviction on a DUI will not prohibit you and it certainly does not for life.

For weed, if you have a card (currently) you are prohibited. With federal reclassification of cannabis, likely having a weed card would not prohibit you as soon as it is reclassified from a schedule I drug to a schedule II or lower drug. Not that that was your question. But today if you gave up a weed card, in 12 months, you are no longer prohibited.

So a conviction for possession from 20 years ago, even if it was NOT pardoned, should not prohibit you today.

 

[JerseyMike]

I’m not going to comment on whether or not you are a prohibited person, but strongly suggest you consult with a lawyer about that issue and expungement of that possession charge, as you may meet the very narrow criteria for the only available expungement of federal crimes.

 

[Allium]

Personally I see the legalization by the state is a backdoor way of disqualifying a large segment of teh population from legally carrying. All the while being able to say - See we made it easier for them to get a carry permit. It is amazing the amount of people with cards I speak to that dont realize they have given up their right to legally own a gun. Oops

 

[Tiff380]

I'd wait it out.

How do you think all those "Medical Marijuana" cardholders think about being excluded now that recreational use will be the law of the land?

That's a really good point! If they have the card then the marijuana was more important then the 2a rights. Now they are on the no guns list for nothing though. Turn in the cards, wait a year and they will be good to go again.

 

[jrumann59]

Personally I see the legalization by the state is a backdoor way of disqualifying a large segment of teh population from legally carrying. All the while being able to say - See we made it easier for them to get a carry permit. It is amazing the amount of people with cards I speak to that dont realize they have given up their right to legally own a gun. Oops

I think the Dems know the conflict this will cause, knowing full well when you disqualify them federally from firearm ownership because of marijuana they will continue to thank them for legalizing marijuana.

 

[ChannelCat]

Personally I see the legalization by the state is a backdoor way of disqualifying a large segment of the population from legally carrying.

This! Dittoes for even owning guns.

 

[Tiff380]

Ditto there.

Per DOJ

"A pardon is an expression of the President’s forgiveness. It does not signify innocence or expunge the conviction. It does, however, remove civil disabilities—such as restrictions on the right to vote, to hold office, or to sit on a jury—that are imposed because of the pardoned conviction. It may also be helpful in obtaining licenses, bonding, or employment. "

And possession is not lifelong prohibiting. I can't recall what you deal with for drug offenses, but for example the habitual drunkard standard is, IIRC, 2 convictions of a DUI (I think public intoxication may also count?) within 3 years disqualify you. So long as you have been clean for 3 years since your last conviction, you can possess again. Now if you were talking about losing your rights or getting them back for Alcohol use, I'd consult an actual lawyer on that as I might have the time/convictions count wrong. But even a single conviction on a DUI will not prohibit you and it certainly does not for life.

For weed, if you have a card (currently) you are prohibited. With federal reclassification of cannabis, likely having a weed card would not prohibit you as soon as it is reclassified from a schedule I drug to a schedule II or lower drug. Not that that was your question. But today if you gave up a weed card, in 12 months, you are no longer prohibited.

So a conviction for possession from 20 years ago, even if it was NOT pardoned, should not prohibit you today.

MSP really needs to be clearer on all of it. I had asked MSP for some sort of list of what makes a person prohibited and they said there was no list made available for the public.

 

[Tiff380]

This! Dittoes for even owning guns.

Yes I believe one is required to turn in any firearms if they get the MMCC card.

 

[sxs]

Where do you see "convicted of possession"?

Here are the MD, and Fed prohibitions (from the MSP website, may not be 100% correct)

https://mdsp.maryland.gov/Documents/State%20Prohibitors.pdf

https://mdsp.maryland.gov/Documents/Federal%20Prohibitors.pdf

I don't see it.

202 years is a long time ago, and it was a small amount.

Permits have been approved for DUIs, assaults, and other 'crimes'

Seems to me you'd have a very good chance of being approved. Just disclose everything, and do not lie.


And welcome aboard! Perhaps go to the Introductions forum, and post up so we can know you better:

Introductions

New members, sound off!

www.mdshooters.com

Good to see you back from "vacation", eruby!

 

[Tiff380]

Good to see you back from "vacation", eruby!

Thanks but I prefer to post about my criminal convictions record and not anything personal to myself.

Lol just kidding. I was going to but didn't have anything interesting to post.

 

[Tiff380]

MSP wouldn't even tell me if a presidential pardon was accepted or not.

 

[4g64loser]

Thanks but I prefer to post about my criminal convictions record and not anything personal to myself.

Lol just kidding. I was going to but didn't have anything interesting to post.

Sxs wasn't directing the vacation comment to you. It was to member Eruby. Eruby got a timeout. He is a very popular and well liked fellow hereabouts with a great sense of humor and a knowledge of great eating establishments. Many people are glad to see his posts again. .


I second the suggestion for lawyer consult. If you can get expungement, this is the best way. If not, looking at the best interpretation of the MSP crap will also be in the lawyers court. As would representing you in any appeals of denial.

 

[fishgutzy]

Technically, pot was not legalized. It is a wierd amendment in that it requires the state legislature first pass a law legalizing pot fist. If they don't, the current status quo remains. But that part of it was left out of the brief summary on the ballot.

 

[Tiff380]

Sxs wasn't directing the vacation comment to you. It was to member Eruby. Eruby got a timeout. He is a very popular and well liked fellow hereabouts with a great sense of humor and a knowledge of great eating establishments. Many people are glad to see his posts again. .


I second the suggestion for lawyer consult. If you can get expungement, this is the best way. If not, looking at the best interpretation of the MSP crap will also be in the lawyers court. As would representing you in any appeals of denial.

I saw that about Eruby and now I'm looking forward to hearing about great eating establishments. I was replying to the request for introducing myself. If I could afford a lawyer I would pursue this. I was really curious to hear other people's thoughts on it and hopeful that maybe someone else had been through a similar experience.

 

[scottyfz6]

Technically, pot was not legalized. It is a wierd amendment in that it requires the state legislature first pass a law legalizing pot fist. If they don't, the current status quo remains. But that part of it was left out of the brief summary on the ballot.

Actually they passed the law, but it would not go into effect unless the amendment passed. They actually put the horse before the cart on this one.

https://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2022RS/Chapters_noln/CH_26_hb0837e.pdf

https://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2022RS/fnotes/bil_0007/hb0837.pdf

hb837 https://mgaleg.maryland.gov/mgawebsite/Legislation/Details/hb0837

 

[4g64loser]

Hasn't been an issue for me because I hate the smell of pot burning and if I need a downer, alcohol has always been legal (in addition to not being an employment issue on whiz quizzes).

I do know the feds are a royal PITA when it comes to expungement. With the Bidet pardon still being relatively wet ink, I haven't seen any writeups on people using it for proceedings. In theory, it is forgiveness of your conviction. In practice, what it means remains to be seen.