MD HBAR questions

[Mark75H]

Question: What paperwork is done when an FFL01 buys a gun from a private seller? The full deal? How would an FFL know if a particular lower had originally been under a HBAR or not? Parts is parts, or am I wrong?

I am just wondering if an FFL could unknowingly sell a complete AR with what was originally an MD regulated lower, now under a HBAR as a non-MD-regulated firearm without it leaving the state?

If the gun was built out of state from a stripped lower with a HBAR, shipped to a MD FFL for transfer ... this is not a MD-regulated-firearm, correct? The same pieces assembled in MD became regulated when the stripped lower was sold in MD.

As far as that goes, wouldn't a complete HBAR built from a stripped lower assembled in MD, registered to a MD resident as an MD-regulated-firearm, get legally sold and shipped out of MD to a second party, resold back into MD thru legal channels & procedures ... because it came back into MD whole as a HBAR ... now the very same gun is not regulated?

Freely correct me if I do not understand the situation

 

[mdoffroad]

interesting...
good question

 

[JR9390]

I think you are mixing up 2 different things. Stripped lowers are only allowed to be sold to people 21 and older federally because you could assemble that lower into a pistol which you'd have to be 21 or older to purchase. Federal laws have nothing to do with Maryland's regulated and non regulated Hbar nonsense. Since any lower with an Hbar upper on it in Maryland is an Hbar and not regulated you could easily have a scenerio where a purchaser buys a regulated rifle, changes the upper to a heavy barrel, then sells that complete rifle as a HBar which it is now.

I can see the issue coming up if that rifle was used in a crime at some point and MSP traces it and wonders how it was transferred between two residents without paperwork from the MSP. When I asked one of the troopers in the firearms unit a similar scenario I was told that this could happen and they are aware of it. Its a problem with a system that uses features to determine whether or not it should be regulated. The exact same receiver with the exception of the serial number can be regulated if it has a light weight barrel and not regulated with a heavy barrel. It's pretty silly.

Someone who lives in PA could purchase a Colt 6720 light weight rifle, decide to put a heavy barrel on it instead of the lightweight barrel and then sell that item on Gunbroker. Technically when that rifle arrives in Maryland to be transferred it has a heavy barrel and it is now an HBar and is not regulated even though the model number comes from the factory as regulated.

Has anyone else spoken to MSP about this ?

 

[Mark75H]

Was there a post deleted?

 

[NRA-Benefactor]

We all know the whole H-Bar thing is crazy in MD...

Stop and think, how in the hell can a part that is not regulated (the upper) determine if the lower is or isn't regulated??? (when together)

But it does... Welcome to MD

 

[Loader]

I think you are mixing up 2 different things. Stripped lowers are only allowed to be sold to people 21 and older federally because you could assemble that lower into a pistol which you'd have to be 21 or older to purchase. Federal laws have nothing to do with Maryland's regulated and non regulated Hbar nonsense. Since any lower with an Hbar upper on it in Maryland is an Hbar and not regulated you could easily have a scenerio where a purchaser buys a regulated rifle, changes the upper to a heavy barrel, then sells that complete rifle as a HBar which it is now.

I can see the issue coming up if that rifle was used in a crime at some point and MSP traces it and wonders how it was transferred between two residents without paperwork from the MSP. When I asked one of the troopers in the firearms unit a similar scenario I was told that this could happen and they are aware of it. Its a problem with a system that uses features to determine whether or not it should be regulated. The exact same receiver with the exception of the serial number can be regulated if it has a light weight barrel and not regulated with a heavy barrel. It's pretty silly.

Someone who lives in PA could purchase a Colt 6720 light weight rifle, decide to put a heavy barrel on it instead of the lightweight barrel and then sell that item on Gunbroker. Technically when that rifle arrives in Maryland to be transferred it has a heavy barrel and it is now an HBar and is not regulated even though the model number comes from the factory as regulated.

Has anyone else spoken to MSP about this ?

It would need the heavy barrel and fixed stock, so i am told. i was looking at a match target rifle like that.

in MD, If the rifle was ever regulated, it remains that way. Buy a regulated lower, build an HBAR, and it remains regulated. Buy an unregulated HBAR and put a regular upper on it, and you've created an unregistered regulated firearm which ist verboten en MD.

 

[NateIU10]

It would need the heavy barrel and fixed stock, so i am told. i was looking at a match target rifle like that.

in MD, If the rifle was ever regulated, it remains that way. Buy a regulated lower, build an HBAR, and it remains regulated. Buy an unregulated HBAR and put a regular upper on it, and you've created an unregistered regulated firearm which ist verboten en MD.

That is incorrect, there is no such rule that once regulated, always regulated. No idea why people think that. Also, making a regulated firearm in MD is completely legal, no registration required. An hbar need not have a fixed stock, also.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Welcome to the fourth dimention.

We are discussing here on at least 4 levels : Federal , Md written , Md implied , and expected MSP past practices.

A while back I actually looked into this in the context of outfitting a over 18 , under 21 family member.

To sum up to heart of the Debate that can never be settled is an inherent condrum: Md does not have a specific written statute or regulation that says " once a regulated , always a regulated " . But in actual practice when the s/n is run thru the MSP Database that supposedly doesn't exist , it will come back as Regulated, and the under 21 person can expect to be charged at that point.

The scenario that would most work out for me , not wanting to overly jam up the reciepent is thus :1. The at one time regulated rifle/ reciever is rendered into non-regulated format 2. Both of us and now non-evil rifle all travel to my friendly Va FFL .3. I hand rifle to him , he then sells it to young family member with a fresh Va based 4473 identifing it as an HBAR . 4. Origionals of my recipt , and her 4473 are stored in safe place , and copy of 4473 kept in cleaning rod compartment of rifle.

Of course any Md law passed this session will take effect before relavant birthday , so new stratagies may be needed.

 

[buzzsaw]

I was told that the lower has to actually have part of its stamped/etched/engraved/bedazzled serial number state "#### HBAR" or something like that. Otherwise, MSP would assume it comes off a regulated firearm and must be considered regulated for all time.

Again, only what I've been told, and it seems to make *some* sense to me.

 

[PJDiesel]

That is incorrect, there is no such rule that once regulated, always regulated. No idea why people think that. Also, making a regulated firearm in MD is completely legal, no registration required. An hbar need not have a fixed stock, also.

How about a stamped barrel?

 

[NateIU10]

How about a stamped barrel?

The MSP has been operating off of a, "You must be able to articulate that it is in fact an HBAR," standard.

 

[scottymd]

HBAR is a model of Colt and is stamped on the receiver. If it isn't stamped than it isn't truly an HBAR it is a copycat but ask 10 different people and you get 10 different answers including MSP. IF you really want an HBAR then one stamped by Colt would be your only guarantee that that is what you have.