MD law Section 4-203

[rseymorejr]

I don't know why Baltimore County would waste time doing something like this. I thought they had plenty of actual crime to worry about?

 

[ironpony]

Should this be mentioned to Freestate? This would have to be bad for business.

 

[Laj]

Should this be mentioned to Freestate? This would have to be bad for business.

I don't think this is bad for business. Being in MD is. Freestate is the best indoor range in Central MD.

I don't know why Baltimore County would waste time doing something like this. I thought they had plenty of actual crime to worry about?

Dare I mention he is young and black? Price was possibly expecting to find an illegal gun as criminals are known to take their stolen guns to the gun range for gangsta practice.

He didn't have to let him check his truck or even speak to the officer right?

I'm certainly not going to fault the kid for choosing to be honest and respectful towards a police officer while feeling confident that he wasn't breaking the law.

 

[danb]

Yet some still wonder why the police are unpopular. Asshattery like this.

Dare I mention he is young and black? Price was possibly expecting to find an illegal gun as criminals are known to take their stolen guns to the gun range for gangsta practice.

I'm certainly not going to fault the kid for choosing to be honest and respectful towards a police officer while feeling confident that he wasn't breaking the law.

Right, probably some racial profiling going on. I dont have much doubt about that. If you are black, with gun, you must be a criminal.

The police "saw" him leave so if he lied it would have probably been worse.

 

[Laj]

Yet some still wonder why the police are unpopular. Asshattery like this.


Right, probably some racial profiling going on. I dont have much doubt about that. If you are black, with gun, you must be a criminal.

Most of my students are non-white and it's awkward as a white male to have to explain that this is still their reality. I feel a responsibility to do so.

Anyway, I didn't post this to argue the merits of the case, simply to let people know that "no stops", whether written in law or not, is being aggressively enforced by LE. Again, I'm not going to argue good or bad. Just letting Kepple know to be careful.

 

[danb]

Most of my students are non-white and it's awkward as a white male to have to explain that this is still their reality. I feel a responsibility to do so.

Anyway, I didn't pay this to argue the merits of the case, simply to let people know that "no stops", whether written in law or not, is being aggressively enforced by PD. Again, I'm not going to argue good or bad. Just letting Kepple know to be careful.

It is reality, and I have 0% doubt this is aggressively but "selectively" enforced, same as it ever was. This is simply reason #457 why we need shall issue in this state.

 

[rbird7282]

Bumping this because I had an HQL student that was arrested after for making a "stop" at Royal Farms after shooting at Freestate. Gun was in the trunk, unloaded, in an enclosed (locked) case. His charges were eventually dropped but he was told if he does it again he's going to jail. He was arrested back in January, he was just recently informed of the dropped charges. Police refuse to inform him of the steps he needs to take to get his gun back from evidence. The sad part is this was his first time going to the range with his first gun. Fortunately it didn't scare him away from exercising his rights. The day his gun rights were restored he bought an AR.

I don’t think you’re being told the truth by your student. There is more to this story.


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[ironpony]

Most of my students are non-white and it's awkward as a white male to have to explain that this is still their reality. I feel a responsibility to do so.

Anyway, I didn't post this to argue the merits of the case, simply to let people know that "no stops", whether written in law or not, is being aggressively enforced by LE. Again, I'm not going to argue good or bad. Just letting Kepple know to be careful.

Thanks for posting this. May I ask what you tell your students if they ask "Why were the charges dropped?".





+1 on your first line Danb, honesty is the best policy and I'm not sure why they 100% had to make this arrest. All my popo friends are county boys and they are good people who could see this guy did not have to be run through the system (charges dropped), seems unusual.

I've taken two new shooters to "my" range this year and am proud to say I am promoting the sport, this story shoots that down.

 

[GrimReaper]

The officer "saw" him leave from Freestate and drive to Royal Farms. Simply walked up and asked him "where are you coming from?" Kid said "the gun range". Officer asked "any guns in the car?". Kid was honest "yes sir. In my trunk."

Edit: in case you're not familiar with the area, RoFo is a block from Freestate and I've been warned of officers "following" people after they leave Freestate to see if they stop anywhere.

Of course, this info is all coming from the kid. But based on the documentation and the charges being dropped and having spent a lot of time talking with him before he even took the HQL class, and since the incident, I believe every word he told me.

I dont believe it. Look him up in md case search to see what the charges are/were if any

 

[TheBert]

It says "on the way to or returning from" but mentions nothing about stopping.

That which is not proscribed is prescribed.

I transit from my home in MoCo to my home in OC many times a year. I stop to eat, I stop to get gas, I stop to pee, I stop to let the dog take a leak or puke.

 

[daggo66]

I dont believe it. Look him up in md case search to see what the charges are/were if any

I agree. This doesn't pass the smell test. If he was following him he would already know he came from the range. That ROFO is also a gas station. How can any law prevent you from getting gas so that you don't run out on the way home?

 

[budman93]

I agree. This doesn't pass the smell test. If he was following him he would already know he came from the range. That ROFO is also a gas station. How can any law prevent you from getting gas so that you don't run out on the way home?

yup. especially since the law says nothing about any stops at all. The way i read it as long as you intend to arrive at an approved destination with a regulated firearm at some point you can stop as long as you want wherever you want. It doesn't say you can't.

 

[danb]

The way i read it as long as you intend to arrive at an approved destination with a regulated firearm at some point you can stop as long as you want wherever you want. It doesn't say you can't.

Hence, the charges were dropped. But the fact that the law is on your side does not prevent an asshat from arresting you, and maybe even charging you, possibly even trying you (https://www.capitalgazette.com/news/for_the_record/cg2-arc-140621gn-pinkerton-20140621-story.html) before the judge throws out the charges.

Again: In Maryland you are guilty until proven innocent. And proving you are innocent may cost a lot of money, time, and some time in jail.

 

[BeoBill]

I don't know why Baltimore County would waste time doing something like this. I thought they had plenty of actual crime to worry about?

No disrespect to WORKING POs, but...

It's a lazy way to make a bust, especially toward the end of the month, IMO. Respectful kid coming from Freestate, but DWB. Shouldn't be any trouble for the PO. AND they can get coffee at the same time.

 

[fabsroman]

I don't think this is bad for business. Being in MD is. Freestate is the best indoor range in Central MD.



Dare I mention he is young and black? Price was possibly expecting to find an illegal gun as criminals are known to take their stolen guns to the gun range for gangsta practice.



I'm certainly not going to fault the kid for choosing to be honest and respectful towards a police officer while feeling confident that he wasn't breaking the law.

And people continually ask on this board, "How is an LEO going to catch somebody breaking the law?" This right here is exactly how it will happen. Most people are unaware of the laws on the books.

Based upon the black and white of the law, he is not allowed to stop at Royal Farms. There should be something in the law that provides for minor deviations between the house and the range and the range and the house, of 5 miles or less over the span of a single day.

on the way to, or returning from that activity with only minor deviations between the home and the activity or the activity and the home if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

That is how I would like it to read. I would also like the wording above to be included in the new Transfer bill IF the Transfer bill is going to be passed. I don't want to have to meet my buddy at the duck blind or the shooting range to loan him a gun and then meet him there again to pick it up from him. There needs to be something in the Transfer Bill that allows me to loan a gun to a buddy a day or so before he heads to the range or the hunting blind.

 

[fabsroman]

Most of my students are non-white and it's awkward as a white male to have to explain that this is still their reality. I feel a responsibility to do so.

Anyway, I didn't post this to argue the merits of the case, simply to let people know that "no stops", whether written in law or not, is being aggressively enforced by LE. Again, I'm not going to argue good or bad. Just letting Kepple know to be careful.

It is the same damn reason they pull people over in PG. They don't really care about the traffic citation, they are going on a fishing expedition for illegal firearms or felons in possession. Plenty of people out there that will admit to breaking the law because they have no idea what the law is.

 

[swinokur]

Unloaded and "in transit" meaning no stops for gas, no stops at the store, etc. That is where people will fail. If you are going to and from the event within the speed limits/rule of the road how will anyone know what you are doing?

Um. no it doesn't

The word "in transit" is not in the statute. If stops were prohibited, it would state such. Now the interpretation of "on the way to or returning from" has never been established by case law, so stopping is a personal choice.

But there is no prohibition on stopping in the statute

 

[budman93]

And people continually ask on this board, "How is an LEO going to catch somebody breaking the law?" This right here is exactly how it will happen. Most people are unaware of the laws on the books.

Based upon the black and white of the law, he is not allowed to stop at Royal Farms. There should be something in the law that provides for minor deviations between the house and the range and the range and the house, of 5 miles or less over the span of a single day.

on the way to, or returning from that activity with only minor deviations between the home and the activity or the activity and the home if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

That is how I would like it to read. I would also like the wording above to be included in the new Transfer bill IF the Transfer bill is going to be passed. I don't want to have to meet my buddy at the duck blind or the shooting range to loan him a gun and then meet him there again to pick it up from him. There needs to be something in the Transfer Bill that allows me to loan a gun to a buddy a day or so before he heads to the range or the hunting blind.

I don't see how the black and white of the law means he couldn't stop. It says "the wearing, carrying, or transporting by a person of a handgun ... while the person is engaged in, on the way to, or returning from that activity if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster" If they're cased and unloaded and you are on your way to or from an activity there is absolutely nothing in the law prohibiting you from stopping somewhere. Just because you stop for gas does not mean you are not still on your way home.

 

[swinokur]

The way statutes are constructed is to tell you what you cannot do. So if it's not prohibited, it's allowed.

Some states's statutes specifically prohibit stops. MD 4-203 does not.

Lawyers may tell me I'm wrong but it's a personal choice until we have case law.

 

[Laj]

To answer the questions:
1. Most cops do not know every letter of every law in this state.

2. The "no stops" during transport is not clearly stated in law but as Fabs stated (Please don't hate me for agreeing with Fabs) the law is generally enterpreted to mean DIRECT from point to point, no stops.

3. Yeah, it's a gas station and maybe it would have been different if he was stopping for gas but he actually stopped to go inside and get a drink. The cop approached him and asked some questions. There was no Traffic stop or confrontation. The cop was absolutely fishing.

4. I did check him out on case search and I do believe his story. He's a good dude who made the mistake of being honest and respectful and allowing a police officer to check the gun after admitting it was in his trunk.

Again. I'm not here to argue. I'm not here to analyze what the law says. I simply did this to warn you people that police are doing this. Clearly the judge/prosecutor recognized the kid hadn't done anything wrong. So yeah, we're all right. The law doesn't say no stops. The kid was not convicted of a crime. But a cop did approach him expecting to find a violation.