MGA proposing lead ammo ban for hunting

[Raineman]

The regulation is just another ridiculous Maryland gun law.

Just another law to ignore as far as im concerned..

Yep

I had long phone conversation with Paul Peditto of the DNR about this very subject. He agreed that it didn't make sense and it was something they were looking at and new rules may be forthcoming

Well, I've had my differences with him in past legislation sessions. More than we agreed upon, so we'll see. I'm not hopeful of his support or impact, but would love for him to prove me wrong out of spite.

Also there is this below:

I did the same just before deer season and was told it would be up to the MGA so don't hold your breath.

 

[Clovis]

For anyone interested in the hearing last night:
Sen Young had a "Panel" of supporters, Summary is: Eagles are dying,, Copper ammo works in CA (high powered rifles) and even brought examples of center fired high powdered rifle copper bullets, so copper will work and is available for ANY form of weapon used for all of MD hunting.

Entire SB983 testimony (Starts at 6:17:56)





The opposing testimony starts at 6:43:52

Thanks for that. Some interesting perspectives but not much on the favorable side that made a lot of sense. Still am of the opinion that this prevent a lot of muzzle-loading rifles from being used and rimfire as well.

 

[winch]

Get ready for the 2025 bill to ban all the rest of the lead ammo.

 

[Doctortoxic]

Looks like Izaak Walton is pushing the lead ammo phase out, at least in Minnesota. I guess that’s the last straw, won’t be renewing my IWLA membership at the end of this year. AGC it is. https://news.yahoo.com/lead-ammo-ban-mn-could-015105116.html

 

[Slackdaddy]

Looks like Izaak Walton is pushing the lead ammo phase out, at least in Minnesota. I guess that’s the last straw, won’t be renewing my IWLA membership at the end of this year. AGC it is. https://news.yahoo.com/lead-ammo-ban-mn-could-015105116.html

I dont get, So IWLA is anti hunting??
This will ban .22 rimfire, 30-30, .35 rem, Muzzle loaders, 357M, and many other rifles that have NO lead-free hunting ammo.

Don't we get enough of this $hit with the Republican party? who needs enemies when your "allies" stab you in the back.

 

[Coehorn]

Looks like Izaak Walton is pushing the lead ammo phase out, at least in Minnesota. I guess that’s the last straw, won’t be renewing my IWLA membership at the end of this year. AGC it is. https://news.yahoo.com/lead-ammo-ban-mn-could-015105116.html

I've had concerns over the Elk Neck range closing down or going full-on ammo inspection nazi because of this insane lead-free brouhaha.

It may not be in this bill, but the Left has perfected backdoor gun grabbing incrementalism.

 

[Coehorn]

I dont get, So IWLA is anti hunting??
This will ban .22 rimfire, 30-30, .35 rem, Muzzle loaders, 357M, and many other rifles that have NO lead-free hunting ammo.

Don't we get enough of this $hit with the Republican party? who needs enemies when your "allies" stab you in the back.

A lot of folks who haven't been reloading will begin to. Barnes Bullets has many options to keep the lead-free folks in the deer woods. I'd think .30-30 Winchester .308 bullets would be a slam dunk. Just have to seat them a little deeper because solid copper bullets are longer. Need more copper to make up for the weight loss from removing the lead.

But you're spot on about .22 rimfire. Stinks. A lot of squirrels wiping their brows though.

Good luck to everyone.

 

[Doco Overboard]

First few words or minutes of that testimony was some hag going on about safety.
I had to turn it off at that point.

 

[Doctortoxic]

I dont get, So IWLA is anti hunting??
This will ban .22 rimfire, 30-30, .35 rem, Muzzle loaders, 357M, and many other rifles that have NO lead-free hunting ammo.

Don't we get enough of this $hit with the Republican party? who needs enemies when your "allies" stab you in the back.

Seems like it. I have been an Ike for almost 14 years and I can’t even believe IWLA would stab us in the back like that. Now we know.

 

[Slackdaddy]

A lot of folks who haven't been reloading will begin to. Barnes Bullets has many options to keep the lead-free folks in the deer woods. I'd think .30-30 Winchester .308 bullets would be a slam dunk. Just have to seat them a little deeper because solid copper bullets are longer. Need more copper to make up for the weight loss from removing the lead.

But you're spot on about .22 rimfire. Stinks. A lot of squirrels wiping their brows though.

Good luck to everyone.

The twist of an older 30-30 is not gonna work well in longer copper bullets.

 

[Doco Overboard]

Who the hell is IWLA and whats make them think they have a say in deer hunting?
They lease or own a lot of land? Maybe they allow a lot of their properties to be used by the DNR for surveilling waterman and launching drones for other enforcement purposes which more than likely will be jeopardized by some lead smelting maddened Fudd somewhere in the future.

Did she sound like Edith Bunker??

Edith has a better voice if your asking.
I hope they pass this right off. Looks like they're on track to make it happen.
And the only metric that will be met is no California condors were injured in MD when lead compound construction bullets were made illegal for hunting in MD.

 

[fabsroman]

I have been using Barnes copper bullets in both my hunting rifles and slug guns for the past 20 years. Non-toxic shot is already required for waterfowling, which can make things expensive, but there is evidence that ducks were dying from lead poisoning as they were using lead pellets in their gizzard. Plus, ducks and geese are somewhat easy to kill and the limits aren't all that high. Where this is really going to suck is with dove hunting. There, poor shots can go through 5+ boxes of shells before reaching their 15 bird limit. I have seen some guys burn through 8 boxes of shells on a hot dove field. That gets expensive at $50+ per box. Probably going to suck with upland hunting/shooting too, especially on game farms where you put out 100 quail for the "hunt".

https://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2024RS/bills/sb/sb0983f.pdf

10–428

(A) IN THIS SECTION, “NONLEAD AMMUNITION” INCLUDES:

(1) AMMUNITION IN WHICH THERE IS NO LEAD CONTENT, EXCEPT TRACE AMOUNTS OF LEAD; AND
(2) ANY FEDERALLY APPROVED NONTOXIC SHOTGUN AMMUNITION.

(B) THE DEPARTMENT SHALL:

(1) ESTABLISH A PROCESS TO PHASE OUT AND, ON OR BEFORE DECEMBER 31, 2026, PROHIBIT THE USE OF LEAD OR LEAD–BASED AMMUNITION FOR HUNTING;
(2) ESTABLISH A PROCESS TO CERTIFY AMMUNITION AS NONLEAD AMMUNITION; AND
(3) ADOPT REGULATIONS TO CARRY OUT THIS SECTION.

(C) THE PROCESS TO PHASE OUT LEAD OR LEAD–BASED AMMUNITION SHALL PRIORITIZE DEER HUNTING.

 

[Doco Overboard]

I have been using Barnes copper bullets in both my hunting rifles and slug guns for the past 20 years. Non-toxic shot is already required for waterfowling, which can make things expensive, but there is evidence that ducks were dying from lead poisoning as they were using lead pellets in their gizzard. Plus, ducks and geese are somewhat easy to kill and the limits aren't all that high. Where this is really going to suck is with dove hunting. There, poor shots can go through 5+ boxes of shells before reaching their 15 bird limit. I have seen some guys burn through 8 boxes of shells on a hot dove field. That gets expensive at $50+ per box. Probably going to suck with upland hunting/shooting too, especially on game farms where you put out 100 quail for the "hunt".

https://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2024RS/bills/sb/sb0983f.pdf

10–428

(A) IN THIS SECTION, “NONLEAD AMMUNITION” INCLUDES:

(1) AMMUNITION IN WHICH THERE IS NO LEAD CONTENT, EXCEPT TRACE AMOUNTS OF LEAD; AND
(2) ANY FEDERALLY APPROVED NONTOXIC SHOTGUN AMMUNITION.

(B) THE DEPARTMENT SHALL:

(1) ESTABLISH A PROCESS TO PHASE OUT AND, ON OR BEFORE DECEMBER 31, 2026, PROHIBIT THE USE OF LEAD OR LEAD–BASED AMMUNITION FOR HUNTING;
(2) ESTABLISH A PROCESS TO CERTIFY AMMUNITION AS NONLEAD AMMUNITION; AND
(3) ADOPT REGULATIONS TO CARRY OUT THIS SECTION.

(C) THE PROCESS TO PHASE OUT LEAD OR LEAD–BASED AMMUNITION SHALL PRIORITIZE DEER HUNTING.

If you never hunted ducks and geese with lead shot you wouldn't remember the quantities of birds that abounded before the advent of steel shot.

 

[Biggfoot44]

is not gonna work well in longer copper bullets.

Slightly simplified, Monolithic copper bullets are used length for length , not weight for weight .

For this example , .30-30 would use a 150 TSX FN FB . Barnes published data has bunch data for the usual powders giving 2000 - 2300 fps .

Over the past 3 or 4 decades , plenty of hunters who weren't mandated to , have used the Barnes copper bullets on purpose for the expansion and penetration qualities .

But yeah , a lot of hunters who weren't handloaders before , will become so now . And a business opportunity for start up boutique ammo mfg .

We're also see a step back to the old days . When most hunters used .30-30 , .30-06 , maybe .308 or .243 , because that's what every gas station or country store had on the shelf . ( Or else were handloaders ) . So there will be a trend of having rifles to fit the handful of commonly available hunting ammo , instead if other way around . ( There are already a plethora of .223/ 5.56 ammo on the market with X Bullets , so AR platform hunters are already good to go. )

Yes , CCI makes non toxic .22lr , but it kinda sucks .
{ No , I am NOT in favor of this ! Just giving some ammo and ballistic background .)

 

[fabsroman]

If you never hunted ducks and geese with lead shot you wouldn't remember the quantities of birds that abounded before the advent of steel shot.

First time I ever hunted geese was in the early 90s while I was in undergrad. At that point, non-toxic shot was required. Didn't really get into waterfowling until I met a guy in law school in the mid 90s. We hunted together some and I got the bug. Started hunting a lot of "resident" geese and ducks after that, but cut back once my first child was born in 2007. Depending on what happens with soccer this year, I might get back into it here.

Gist of all that is, I never hunted watefowl during the heyday.

 

[fabsroman]

Slightly simplified, Monolithic copper bullets are used length for length , not weight for weight .

For this example , .30-30 would use a 150 TSX FN FB . Barnes published data has bunch data for the usual powders giving 2000 - 2300 fps .

Over the past 3 or 4 decades , plenty of hunters who weren't mandated to , have used the Barnes copper bullets on purpose for the expansion and penetration qualities .

But yeah , a lot of hunters who weren't handloaders before , will become so now . And a business opportunity for start up boutique ammo mfg .

We're also see a step back to the old days . When most hunters used .30-30 , .30-06 , maybe .308 or .243 , because that's what every gas station or country store had on the shelf . ( Or else were handloaders ) . So there will be a trend of having rifles to fit the handful of commonly available hunting ammo , instead if other way around . ( There are already a plethora of .223/ 5.56 ammo on the market with X Bullets , so AR platform hunters are already good to go. )

Yes , CCI makes non toxic .22lr , but it kinda sucks .
{ No , I am NOT in favor of this ! Just giving some ammo and ballistic background .)

The difference between Barnes X bullets and Remington Core Lokt is incredible. I will never go back to anything but premium bullets unless money really becomes tight. The Barnes bullets retain almost all their weight and expand really nicely. A doe was quartering away from me and I shot her in the hind leg with a Barnes X sabot. She dropped like a sack of potatoes and I recovered the expanded sabot from the left front shoulder.

Yep, I am NOT in favor of this law either, especially when it comes to wing shooting. However, definitely not the end of the world for deer hunting.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Yes
But for non handloaders , the limited selection , limited availability , and $$ of $35- $80 per 20 rounds will be a major pain . Limited practicing . and foreshortened sighting in .

And for handloaders the selection of bullets and calibers will be better , but still $ , as that in consumer qusnities , the component bullets cost about as much as good loaded conventional ammo .

 

[AlBeight]

The Congress critters are very adapt at passing non-sensical and unnecessary laws, so why don’t they just make it illegal for the eagles, hawks, and buzzards to eat the lead shot? Pretty simple solution, and probably just as effective as passing more restrictive gun laws that the criminals ignore anyway.

 

[Clovis]

If you never hunted ducks and geese with lead shot you wouldn't remember the quantities of birds that abounded before the advent of steel shot.

Absolutely! The numbers of geese and ducks on the family farm were all ways huge. You didn't need to bother with decoys, you could easily pass shoot your limit. When you shot they would drop, if they didn't and were wounded they still kept up with the flock and seemed fine. With steel I would get some and wound some but when I went out into the field to get the ones I got I would see blood trails from the wounded that went as far as I wanted to follow. I never saw blood trails from geese with lead. The wounded ones with steel would fly away and likely die of blood loss. The lead shot ones I cleaned in the old days always had feathers in the wound channels and I suspect the feathers acted as bandages and the wounds that were not fatal would heal.

I don't know if there are any numbers of the waterfowl dying from lead poisoning around but I would bet there were a lot more dying from steel shot wounds and still are.

Further, we need to remember and take into account waterfowl will still get lead poison from gravelling and eating lead that has been left on the edges of all the water around here and all up and down the east coast from 3 to 4 hundred years of hunting with lead shot.

Sorry for the rant...

 

[Slackdaddy]

The difference between Barnes X bullets and Remington Core Lokt is incredible. I will never go back to anything but premium bullets unless money really becomes tight. The Barnes bullets retain almost all their weight and expand really nicely. A doe was quartering away from me and I shot her in the hind leg with a Barnes X sabot. She dropped like a sack of potatoes and I recovered the expanded sabot from the left front shoulder.

Yep, I am NOT in favor of this law either, especially when it comes to wing shooting. However, definitely not the end of the world for deer hunting.

What rifles/ speeds are we talking ?
Copper "works" when you get up over 2200 FPS on impact.

I and a majority of MD deer hunters are in the 1400-1800 fps range (Muzzle loader, shotgun slugs, SWC)