billprudden
Active Member
- Nov 24, 2008
- 158
Jerry - I don't think I got your email. But you are def bigger and stronger and meaner than me, so I'll hold you a slot for sure.
Bill
Bill
Movers workshop
- Thread starter billprudden
- Start date
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S1gnal
Stereotype breaker
Bill,
Am I still on standby notice or is everything good to go?
Am I still on standby notice or is everything good to go?
billprudden
Active Member
- Nov 24, 2008
- 158
Funny you should ask... Ed and I are talking about figuring out a way to expand the roster since we are approx 150% booked. The literal answer to your question is that you are #18 out of 16, but I much suspect you will be firing a rifle at noon on March 28, one way or another.
Much suspect.
Bill
Much suspect.
Bill
E.Shell
Ultimate Member
Yeah, we should be able to find a way to accommodate the existing shooter list, and are working at a way to get everyone aboard.
The biggest issue is with the higher math:
The width of the range / distance we want to walk the movers = number of shooters simultaneously on the line.
More shooters = less space to cycle targets = shorter walks = less time to track and/or ambush/shoot targets.
Shooters on the line / shooters attending = number of relays.
Number of relays x time needed for each shooter = length of shooting day.
Length of shooting day + travel time must be < human endurance threshold, in terms of (attainable sleep ~ (hours on feet+behind the wheel)).
So . . .
If we can plan a way to keep everything moving right along, and we think we can, we HOPE to get everyone on the line at some point during the day.
The biggest issue is with the higher math:
The width of the range / distance we want to walk the movers = number of shooters simultaneously on the line.
More shooters = less space to cycle targets = shorter walks = less time to track and/or ambush/shoot targets.
Shooters on the line / shooters attending = number of relays.
Number of relays x time needed for each shooter = length of shooting day.
Length of shooting day + travel time must be < human endurance threshold, in terms of (attainable sleep ~ (hours on feet+behind the wheel)).
So . . .
If we can plan a way to keep everything moving right along, and we think we can, we HOPE to get everyone on the line at some point during the day.
Jerry M
Ultimate Member
Thanks Bill.
Jerry
Jerry
E.Shell
Ultimate Member
You're good to go.
billprudden
Active Member
- Nov 24, 2008
- 158
update
Movers Dudes –
Below should be a chart with everybody's names and suspected time of shooting. Some changes have been made since we last spoke:
1. A lot of people contacted me to shoot, so Ed (my co-conspiritor) and I decided to try to get in three rotations of shooters. Noon, 2 or 2:30, and perhaps 5:00 start times. 24 shooters total.
2. In order to accelerate the shooting to accommodate the larger-than-anticipated crowd, we are going to have everyone shoot from three distances only – 300, 500, and 700. The differences in your dope for the other distances is probably inconsequential, and is extrapolatable anyway, so we don't see this decision as sacrificing too much. We still will have everyone shoot essentially four targets at each distance – slow right to left, slow left to right, fast right to left, and fast left to right, enough times that you can determine and prove your leads for each.
3. The above-mentioned time pressure means that there will not be time for trying to figure out your zero and the bipod you have never used before and what page of my data book do I record this on and so forth without holding up the other shooters. Please show up with a rifle that shoots, gear that works, and your approx dope for 300, 500, and 700 yards. If you are off a little at those distances it will not matter as the "mover", God bless him, is 36" tall.
4. If you have a simple walkee-talkee pair please bring them. They will allow each shooter / spotter team to talk directly with their walker in the pits allowing the teams to go at their own pace. I should be able to borrow four pairs from work, but if you have your own, so much the better.
5. Not everybody needs to be there all day. The noon shooters will need four walkers, the afternoon shooters will also need four, and the evening shooters will also need four. If the noon shooters want to arrive at 11:30 and get set up, shoot, work the pits for the 2:00 shooters, and leave at 5:00, great. Similarly, if the evening shooters didn't show up until 2:00, no big deal. Is cool?
6. There is an independent sniper match the next day, Sunday March 29th. I believe Mike still has openings. I also believe you can camp at the range. If you are interested in shooting this match too, please see this thread for more info http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=716295#Post716295 .
What hasn't changed includes:
1. Noon start, 11:45 briefing in the pits.
2. $20; 10 for targets and 10 for the range.
Finally, if anybody else wants to shoot, not all of the names are carved in stone, and there is one slot left, so let me know.
Bill - billprudden@hotmail.com
Slot Squad Name
1 noon Ed Shell
2 Laura
3 Marc hinther
4 Dylan
5 Jerry Mueller
6 Taylor White
7 Samuel Kuehmichel
8 Bryant
9 2pm Bill Prudden
10 Charlie Hostetler ??
11 Rod Hansen
12 John Markwell
13 Brock
14 Matt
15 Kyle Lee
16 Steve Lyncha
17 5pm Steve Bechtel
18 Mike McNamee
19 Jeff Gilbertson
20 Tom ??
21 Andy B
22 Freddy Wissing
23 Mike ??
24
Movers Dudes –
Below should be a chart with everybody's names and suspected time of shooting. Some changes have been made since we last spoke:
1. A lot of people contacted me to shoot, so Ed (my co-conspiritor) and I decided to try to get in three rotations of shooters. Noon, 2 or 2:30, and perhaps 5:00 start times. 24 shooters total.
2. In order to accelerate the shooting to accommodate the larger-than-anticipated crowd, we are going to have everyone shoot from three distances only – 300, 500, and 700. The differences in your dope for the other distances is probably inconsequential, and is extrapolatable anyway, so we don't see this decision as sacrificing too much. We still will have everyone shoot essentially four targets at each distance – slow right to left, slow left to right, fast right to left, and fast left to right, enough times that you can determine and prove your leads for each.
3. The above-mentioned time pressure means that there will not be time for trying to figure out your zero and the bipod you have never used before and what page of my data book do I record this on and so forth without holding up the other shooters. Please show up with a rifle that shoots, gear that works, and your approx dope for 300, 500, and 700 yards. If you are off a little at those distances it will not matter as the "mover", God bless him, is 36" tall.
4. If you have a simple walkee-talkee pair please bring them. They will allow each shooter / spotter team to talk directly with their walker in the pits allowing the teams to go at their own pace. I should be able to borrow four pairs from work, but if you have your own, so much the better.
5. Not everybody needs to be there all day. The noon shooters will need four walkers, the afternoon shooters will also need four, and the evening shooters will also need four. If the noon shooters want to arrive at 11:30 and get set up, shoot, work the pits for the 2:00 shooters, and leave at 5:00, great. Similarly, if the evening shooters didn't show up until 2:00, no big deal. Is cool?
6. There is an independent sniper match the next day, Sunday March 29th. I believe Mike still has openings. I also believe you can camp at the range. If you are interested in shooting this match too, please see this thread for more info http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=716295#Post716295 .
What hasn't changed includes:
1. Noon start, 11:45 briefing in the pits.
2. $20; 10 for targets and 10 for the range.
Finally, if anybody else wants to shoot, not all of the names are carved in stone, and there is one slot left, so let me know.
Bill - billprudden@hotmail.com
Slot Squad Name
1 noon Ed Shell
2 Laura
3 Marc hinther
4 Dylan
5 Jerry Mueller
6 Taylor White
7 Samuel Kuehmichel
8 Bryant
9 2pm Bill Prudden
10 Charlie Hostetler ??
11 Rod Hansen
12 John Markwell
13 Brock
14 Matt
15 Kyle Lee
16 Steve Lyncha
17 5pm Steve Bechtel
18 Mike McNamee
19 Jeff Gilbertson
20 Tom ??
21 Andy B
22 Freddy Wissing
23 Mike ??
24
Last edited by a moderator:
if there is an open slot I'm in
E.Shell
Ultimate Member
Better e-mail Bill now if you want in. He doesn't check the forums every day and that's why the instructions specified e-mailing him. Hope you can get in.
billprudden
Active Member
- Nov 24, 2008
- 158
Friends -
With work and other issues sveral slots have opened. Email me if you would like to attend.
Also, I am strongly tempted to slightly adjust the course of fire from what is described above. My plan had been to shoot at 300, 500, and 700. However, at a sniper match here in Maryland last month I observed the modest scores a pretty damn respectable group of shooters were putting up at 200 yards on a mover and said to myself "hmmmm". Perhaps we ought to go with something like 200, 400, and 600 instead, especially since we will be using "thin" movers instead of big B-27s or the like.
Anyway, if you want in give me a shout.
Billprudden@hotmail.com
With work and other issues sveral slots have opened. Email me if you would like to attend.
Also, I am strongly tempted to slightly adjust the course of fire from what is described above. My plan had been to shoot at 300, 500, and 700. However, at a sniper match here in Maryland last month I observed the modest scores a pretty damn respectable group of shooters were putting up at 200 yards on a mover and said to myself "hmmmm". Perhaps we ought to go with something like 200, 400, and 600 instead, especially since we will be using "thin" movers instead of big B-27s or the like.
Anyway, if you want in give me a shout.
Billprudden@hotmail.com
billprudden
Active Member
- Nov 24, 2008
- 158
OK, all details done, I think:
Shooting at noon:
Ed
Laura
Marc Hinther
Dylan
Jerry Mueller
Bryant
Kyle Lee
Samuel Kuehmichel
Shooting at 2pmish:
Mike Erb
Ben DeRoner
Rod
John
Brock
Matt
Bill
Gail
Shooting at 5pmish:
Steve Lyncha
Tom Fernandez
Jeff Gilbertson
Andy B
Mike Erb II
Ben DeRoner II
Mike McNamee
Sam
See you there, 11:30 start time for noon shooters and afternoon shooters who are willing to work the pits at noon.
Bill
Shooting at noon:
Ed
Laura
Marc Hinther
Dylan
Jerry Mueller
Bryant
Kyle Lee
Samuel Kuehmichel
Shooting at 2pmish:
Mike Erb
Ben DeRoner
Rod
John
Brock
Matt
Bill
Gail
Shooting at 5pmish:
Steve Lyncha
Tom Fernandez
Jeff Gilbertson
Andy B
Mike Erb II
Ben DeRoner II
Mike McNamee
Sam
See you there, 11:30 start time for noon shooters and afternoon shooters who are willing to work the pits at noon.
Bill
Last edited by a moderator:
billprudden
Active Member
- Nov 24, 2008
- 158
Hello Mike -
No, I didn't. Perhaps try work - bprudden@thorpewood.org. Can def still slot you in the pm so please give me a bounce.
Bill
No, I didn't. Perhaps try work - bprudden@thorpewood.org. Can def still slot you in the pm so please give me a bounce.
Bill
billprudden
Active Member
- Nov 24, 2008
- 158
All -
Sent emails to everyone with driving directions and last-minute details a moment ago. If you didn't get one please bounce me.
Bill
Sent emails to everyone with driving directions and last-minute details a moment ago. If you didn't get one please bounce me.
Bill
K Train
PARATROOPER
Anyone want to ride together from the greater Ft Meade / Baltimore Area???
E.Shell
Ultimate Member
Check your PMs Kyle, I have some ideas for you.
K Train
PARATROOPER
K Train
PARATROOPER
Had fun and learned a lot today out there. Glad the weather held out for us. Thanks for putting this on!
E.Shell
Ultimate Member
+1
We had a good time too. Very interesting day and very good of Bill to reserve the range for us and work as hard as he did to make this happen.
Good to learn how to combine wind and lead, and to be forced to remember that we still have wind concerns at longer distances. We had double the hold off when the target was going left to right vs right to left at 800 yards and mirage at the steel told the (4-5 mph) story.
Target leads were slightly less than expected, but walking speed is variable and so subjective, it's always going to be different.
We hope to do this again, so any comments and critique would be welcome. The comments below are mine, and please feel free to add to them or comment on my comments (and maybe I'll comment on your comments back):
1) More sticks would have been better, we broke a couple that got shot up and if we had more shooters, or more centered hits, we'd have lost enough to slow things down. We had 12 when we started.
2) We should have put the steel a few feet further forward to enhance pit crew safety.
3) Instructions should be added to have the walkers identify who's (whose?) targets are who's (whom's?), and at what range they were shot. Although the immediate feedback from the pits was good enough for what we were doing, a record is always good.
4) The walking distance was plenty, and IMO we could have put 5 shooting positions in with no problem. Most guys only got one or two rounds off each pass anyway, so much of the walking distance/time/energy was wasted. If going to five positions vs four would get everyone on two relays, I'd suggest making the change.
5) Instructions could have included "load your magazine and be prepared to shoot multiple times per pass". Too many guys single-loaded from a cartridge box, which is completely out of place in a "tactical" (movers) shooting situation and slowed the line at times.
6) A prep time for zero checking at each range seems like it would have helped some shooters. Many folks are really not prepared to engage even stationary targets at 500/600 or 800 yards, let alone movers. A chance to check our come-ups before engaging the movers would have streamlined things in the long run and reduced vertical misses.
Overall, I think we did pretty well with it, and we ran through with time to spare, vs our planning, but one always looks to see what can be improved.
We had a good time too. Very interesting day and very good of Bill to reserve the range for us and work as hard as he did to make this happen.
Good to learn how to combine wind and lead, and to be forced to remember that we still have wind concerns at longer distances. We had double the hold off when the target was going left to right vs right to left at 800 yards and mirage at the steel told the (4-5 mph) story.
Target leads were slightly less than expected, but walking speed is variable and so subjective, it's always going to be different.
We hope to do this again, so any comments and critique would be welcome. The comments below are mine, and please feel free to add to them or comment on my comments (and maybe I'll comment on your comments back):
1) More sticks would have been better, we broke a couple that got shot up and if we had more shooters, or more centered hits, we'd have lost enough to slow things down. We had 12 when we started.
2) We should have put the steel a few feet further forward to enhance pit crew safety.
3) Instructions should be added to have the walkers identify who's (whose?) targets are who's (whom's?), and at what range they were shot. Although the immediate feedback from the pits was good enough for what we were doing, a record is always good.
4) The walking distance was plenty, and IMO we could have put 5 shooting positions in with no problem. Most guys only got one or two rounds off each pass anyway, so much of the walking distance/time/energy was wasted. If going to five positions vs four would get everyone on two relays, I'd suggest making the change.
5) Instructions could have included "load your magazine and be prepared to shoot multiple times per pass". Too many guys single-loaded from a cartridge box, which is completely out of place in a "tactical" (movers) shooting situation and slowed the line at times.
6) A prep time for zero checking at each range seems like it would have helped some shooters. Many folks are really not prepared to engage even stationary targets at 500/600 or 800 yards, let alone movers. A chance to check our come-ups before engaging the movers would have streamlined things in the long run and reduced vertical misses.
Overall, I think we did pretty well with it, and we ran through with time to spare, vs our planning, but one always looks to see what can be improved.
