MSP: Current carry-permit holders "will be issued" HQLs on request

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  • ddeanjohnson

    autodidact
    Aug 21, 2010
    801
    I and others have written elsewhere about the general requirements for obtaining a "Handgun Qualification License" (HQL), about particular exemptions to the requirement for a HQL, particular exemptions to the general training requirement, etc. The purpose of this thread is to report on very specific question that has been raised by individuals who hold Maryland carry permits, and who tell us that they have received confusing or conflicting information regarding what their status will be with respect to the HQL requirements. Yes, I know that this is an issue that directly affects relatively few people in Maryland. Still, a number of people have raised the question, including a friend of mine who actually has a carry permit because he carries large cash deposits. It seemed to me the kind of question to which a definitive answer really ought to be available by this point, so I set out to see if I could get one.

    SB 281 states as follows: "The Secretary [of the Maryland State Police] may issue a Handgun Qualification License, without an additional application or fee, to a person who: (1) meets the requirements for issuance of a permit under this section [i.e., a carry permit]; and (2) does not have a handgun qualification license issued under Sec. 5-117.1 of this Title."

    A draft regulation that the MSP posted on its website on September 5, 2013, reads as follows: "A person who has a valid permit issued under Public Safety Article, Title 5, Subtitle 3, Annotated Code of Maryland may submit a written request to the Secretary for a Handgun Qualification License without submitting the Handgun Qualification License application or fee of Regulation .28 of this chapter."

    It was not clear to me, from reading the proposed regulation, whether a HQL license will be issued in every case, upon the submission of such a "written request" by a carry permit holder, or whether such requests would be evaluated individually based on some unpublished criteria. Therefore, I submitted an inquiry on this point to MSP Lieutenant John G. Cook, commander of the Licensing Section, which is part of the MSP Licensing Division, stating that I intended to disseminate his response. On September 7, 2013, Lt. Cook responded as follows:

    Carry permit holders will also apply for the HQL through the automated process and upon verification of the permit, a HQL will be issued.

    Careful readers will note that the draft regulation and Lt. Cook's response are not in perfect harmony -- the draft regulation says that the permit holder requests the HQL "without submitting the Handgun Qualification License application," while Lt. Cook says that "carry permit holders will also apply for the HQL . . " But I interpret this as merely an minor imprecision in expression. The statute and draft regulation both specify that when the Secretary employs this particular "may issue" authority, the HQL will be issued without submission of the general HQL application form or payment of the HQL fee. Thus, my interpretation is that the permit holder will basically check one box -- a box requesting issuance of a HQL on grounds that he or she already holds a valid carry permit, enter his permit number, and press "submit." He will then be sent a HQL without further action being required on his part. The key part of Lt. Cook's response is that MSP policy will be that if the requester indeed already holds a valid carry permit, "a HQL will be issued," period.

    I am aware that a few other inquirers report that they have received responses from lower-ranking MSP officers that, in my opinion, conflict with the plain language of the statute, the draft regulation, and the Cook response. I have no explanation for these reports. I believe that the sources that I cite above are based on greater authority and justify posting this report-- although I suppose that everything is subject to change, at least until October 1.
     
    Last edited:

    ddeanjohnson

    autodidact
    Aug 21, 2010
    801
    further confirmation from MSP

    I inquired of Lt. Cook regarding the contradictory responses reportedly received from lower-ranking MSP officers by certain other inquirers on the topic of this thread, as reported elsewhere on this forum. In an email dated September 11, he replied:

    Valid carry permit holders will be issued an HQL upon request regardless of when the permit was issued. They will be required to supply their permit number on the application.

    The lieutenant said that he would ensure that this process was clearly understood by a subordinate officer named in other threads.
     

    fightinbluhen51

    "Quack Pot Call Honker"
    Oct 31, 2008
    8,974
    What about us non-carry permit peons? I have a carry permit from VA that is still valid, is that not satisfactory?
     

    Straightshooter

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 28, 2010
    5,015
    Baltimore County
    Thanks for making the inquiry. I was going to call Cook on Friday so you saved me the trouble. Now we'l
    I'll wait until they get their act together on the application to proceed.
     

    UNcommon Arms

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Feb 16, 2011
    332
    Howard County
    Mandating a MD CCH, or FFL obtain an HQL is redundant. Both have already undergone tremendous scrutiny and having that HQL or another piece a paper does not make them any more qualified. The HQL will be thrown out... eventually see Murdock v. Pennsylvania 319 U.S. 105 1943 SCOTUS "you cannot license a right."
     

    pilotguy299

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 26, 2010
    1,809
    FredNeck County, MD
    Interesting issue with this:


    ...

    SB 281 states as follows: "The Secretary [of the Maryland State Police] may issue a Handgun Qualification License, without an additional application or fee, to a person who: (1) meets the requirements for issuance of a permit under this section [i.e., a carry permit]; and (2) does not have a handgun qualification license issued under Sec. 5-117.1 of this Title."

    A draft regulation that the MSP posted on its website on September 5, 2013, reads as follows: "A person who has a valid permit issued under Public Safety Article, Title 5, Subtitle 3, Annotated Code of Maryland may submit a written request to the Secretary for a Handgun Qualification License without submitting the Handgun Qualification License application or fee of Regulation .28 of this chapter."

    ....

    The law says a HQL will be issued to those who "meets the requirements for the issuance of a permit", while the proposed regulation says "A person who has a valid permit...."

    I see a difference between what is written in the law, and what is written in the proposed regulation. I can meet the requirements for the issuance of a permit, without actually having a permit.
     

    UNcommon Arms

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Feb 16, 2011
    332
    Howard County
    Massachusetts has been doing just that for well over 30 years...
    No one has challenged it. If/when the right defendant can be found and the funds to support the case raised will these Unconstitutional laws be challenged/over turned. It took 30 years to overturn DC's Unconstitutional 2A laws...
     

    ddeanjohnson

    autodidact
    Aug 21, 2010
    801
    Gentlemen, the purpose of this particular thread is solely to address what carry permit holders must do to obtain a HQL. Please, let's not transform it into yet another thread about the badness of the entire HQL scheme, its dubious constitutionality, the desirability of living in this or that state other than Maryland, etc. Those are all important topics, under discussion on countless other threads. But there is value in resolving a few of the practical issues that affect specific groups of Maryland firearms owners.
     

    6-Pack

    NRA Life Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 17, 2013
    5,691
    Carroll Co.
    So this is how the elitests get around their pesky HQL....I didn't think Frosh & Co. Would want to jump through all of those hoops! No, I don't know if he has a CCW, but it wouldn't surprise me.
     

    ddeanjohnson

    autodidact
    Aug 21, 2010
    801
    Still have to do the continuing education at time of renewal. Fun, Fun, Fun

    Yes. However, the re-training requirement does not apply if the applicant for renewal is himself "a qualified handgun instructor," or "has completed a firearms training course approved by the Secretary."
     

    ericahls

    Active Member
    Aug 31, 2011
    672
    Elkridge MD
    I inquired of Lt. Cook regarding the contradictory responses reportedly received from lower-ranking MSP officers by certain other inquirers on the topic of this thread, as reported elsewhere on this forum. In an email dated September 11, he replied:

    Valid carry permit holders will be issued an HQL upon request regardless of when the permit was issued. They will be required to supply their permit number on the application.

    The lieutenant said that he would ensure that this process was clearly understood by a subordinate officer named in other threads.
    Thanks for getting this info. I am one of the few who has a permit.

    Thanks again.
     

    esqappellate

    President, MSI
    Feb 12, 2012
    7,408
    Yes. However, the re-training requirement does not apply if the applicant for renewal is himself "a qualified handgun instructor," or "has completed a firearms training course approved by the Secretary."

    Does anyone know if the Secretary has "approved" any such training course? As far as I know, no such approval has been issued. I specifically wrote Sgt Kow. and requested that the Sec. approve PPITH and Advanced PPOTH NRA courses, but I never got a response. Am seriously thinking of filing a formal petition for rulemaking for that purpose.
     

    ddeanjohnson

    autodidact
    Aug 21, 2010
    801
    Does anyone know if the Secretary has "approved" any such training course? As far as I know, no such approval has been issued. I specifically wrote Sgt Kow. and requested that the Sec. approve PPITH and Advanced PPOTH NRA courses, but I never got a response. Am seriously thinking of filing a formal petition for rulemaking for that purpose.

    I don't think you'd want to encourage a precedent under which the MSP has to go through formal rulemaking before the Secretary approves a "course." This should be left to internal administrative determinations. Under the law and the draft regulations, a satisfactory "course" is whatever the Secretary determines it to be, so if the Secretary doesn't like a course for some reason, you're not going to force him to approve it anyway, rulemaking or no rulemaking. My concern is that an unduly restriction application of the rule could cause the MSP to be forced to deny approval to applicants who are in fact well trained and who have fulfilled all of the other current criteria.

    For example, an applicant may provide documentation that he completed clearly satisfactory courses that no longer exist. You might have a senior citizen who was a pistol instructor in the 1970s. He has had more training than the law requires by orders of magnitude, and can prove it. He also now has a "good and substantial reason," as validated by the MSP, and an urgent need for a carry permit -- let's say that he agreed to testify for the state as a witness against a gang member, and is receiving credible death threats, or something like that. Do you want the Secretary to be forced to deny the permit until the applicant goes and completes a 16-hour course that is on some rigid list, hammered out by formal rulemaking? Or do you want the Secretary to be able to say, "This applicant is trained, bad guys want to kill this applicant, issue the permit!"?

    By saying this, I do not mean to discourage asking the MSP to grant blanket approval of certain named courses, but flexibility should be preserved.
     

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