svana
NRA Life Member
So with the recent acquisition of my new-to-me Savage 111 in 30-06, of course the natural progression was for me to start thinking about reloading. I had always debated on it for more of a monetary reason as I shoot 9mm and .223/5.56, but once I picked this up it kicked down the door in regards to whether or not I should pull the trigger so to speak. My main hesitation is the fact that I live in an apartment, but I was just able to double my storage unit size for free, so now I’ve got 8’x8’ worth of space, and a workbench fits perfectly in there along with all of my tools and whatnot. Combined with the multiple threads about some people’s closet setups and apartment rigs, I think I could put something nice together. However, by opening that can of worms I essentially opened up pandoras box in regards to information overload. Plenty of what I’m bringing up I’ve looked at in other threads, but I’d like to try and digest it and get any input available from you guys as to if I’m thinking in the right direction.
Why do I want to reload?
Well, at this point it’s two-fold. Firstly, I would like to get into reloading to put together a load that works best with my rifle. I’d like to use that same rifle for hunting and for long range competition. While reloading isn’t as necessary for hunting (most of my hunting ‘at the moment’ will be within 100yds most likely), it is a bigger factor for competition. Secondly, if I already have a reloading setup then I’d be hard pressed not to reload for my other calibers and save money on it. I think the biggest value money-saving wise will come into reloading for the 111 as I’ve seen that match ammo can eclipse $2/rd and my understanding is that reloading comes in at about $.50/rd. Nowadays you can buy reman 9mm for close to 20cpr, so I’m not sure about how much savings can be had in the smaller calibers.
What type of press should I look at?
Based on the primary reason I wanted to reload, my understanding is that a single stage press would accomplish this task well (if not better), but when it comes to reloading the rest, a progressive press would be best suited for cranking out range rounds. While quality is more of a requisite than quantity when it comes to the 111, the progressive (Dillon 550) is able to be converted into a single stage, no? If this is the case, then it may be in my best interest to go the progressive route.
Space setup
As I mentioned before, I was able to secure a larger 8x8 storage unit for no additional charge, which when coming from a 4x9 makes it seem like you have a whole extra room to use. Converting that space into a small workshop is great, which I’ll use for reloading, working on my 4Runner parts, etc. I plan on building one of the $50 workbenches that is floating around the internet (similar to this one http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=122393). A separate goal for me is that I’m trying to build it all from scrap wood found on craigslist or whatever because the bench will probably be temporary as I don’t want to move it with us once we move out of the apartment. So on that note, if you’ve got any extra 2x4’s or a sheet of plywood laying around northern VA let me know lol.
New or Used?
I’ve been keeping my eye out for the going rate of a used Dillon 550 and it seems that the majority are going for about $350 with the amount of accessories/dies accompanying them varying. When the machine is $450 new, the spread isn’t too large.There was one ad I came across that had a Dillon with a bunch of parts (didn’t have a list) and a MEC 9000 series going for about $900. That’s far more than I wanted to pay even with the MEC, but it gave me an understanding that the base machine doesn’t lose it's value much, the deal comes in the amount of dies/accessories that could come with a used package.
Literature
Most “so you want to start reloading” threads that I have come across often list a solid set of books/manuals to take a look at. Some of these lists seem to be brand specific, Hornady, Speer, Lyman, Nosler, etc.. Does a Hornady book still provide value if you’re not using Hornady bullets for example? Would buying the books before you even look at a press be advisable?
Components
This is probably the most convoluted topic for me. I understand the concept that in order to develop the best load you try multiple permutations of different variables until you find the combination that works best for your rifle. However. Where the heck do you start? In theory you start with a certain set of components and then change one out at a time. If you did that you could literally rack up thousands of dollars worth of powders, bullets, primers, cases that you’ll never use again? Am I missing something here? Research has led me to the fact that a lot of 111 ’06 shooters are finding success with 165 grain bullets. That’s a start, but that doesn’t narrow it down much. When most talk about buying powder by the pound, it’d be crazy to think that one would get a bulk quantity when you’re not even sure if it’s going to be a good match. Can you buy like sample sizes of different components to try them out and see what’s best for my specific case? Also, the rifle still has a stock barrel. When I replace the barrel, will I have to repeat the process over again? I’d think so, but it would at least give me a solid starting point I think if I already had a good load worked up for the rifle.
Hunting vs. Competing
Most of what I have read has based their reloading requirements on hunting and not competing in long range competitions. For those that do both, do you have a different load for each? If so, does that require you to re-zero your optic based on what load you’re using if you only have one rifle that serves double duty? I would assume you’d want a boat-tail low drag bullet for competition to give you the added accuracy and less resistance. On the flip side, you’d want a more rounded nose for hunting to provide more expansion than penetration, no? The round would undoubtedly go through the deer at under 100yds regardless of the nose type, but the expansion would pack a better punch for takedown?
Testing your loads
I think I have a fairly solid understanding on how to test your developed loads. Many have a bunch of different ways of going about it, I’d probably stick to a modified ladder system at first, then expand upon the various permutations once one variable has been identified as successful. I think the key to any load testing is just note taking. Record every result and analyze what you have in order to take the next step forward in narrowing down your selection. It would be a pain to have to wait a week in between testing a new set of loads, but I guess that’s life, right? Plus, I’d like to find a location where I could test them out at 300 yards, but I definitely don’t feel like I’m at that point yet.
Conclusions
So far those are the limits to my understanding of the reloading world as it pertains to my situation, I’m sure more will come up as time goes on. However, the biggest questions I have are in the Components and Hunting vs. Competing category. While I’d appreciate any remarks or opinions on my overall state of understanding, any experiences you guys have on those two categories would be extra appreciated. I'll probably cross-post over on the savage forum as I'm sure many there have gone through the same footsteps as well. As always, thanks for the breadth of information.
Why do I want to reload?
Well, at this point it’s two-fold. Firstly, I would like to get into reloading to put together a load that works best with my rifle. I’d like to use that same rifle for hunting and for long range competition. While reloading isn’t as necessary for hunting (most of my hunting ‘at the moment’ will be within 100yds most likely), it is a bigger factor for competition. Secondly, if I already have a reloading setup then I’d be hard pressed not to reload for my other calibers and save money on it. I think the biggest value money-saving wise will come into reloading for the 111 as I’ve seen that match ammo can eclipse $2/rd and my understanding is that reloading comes in at about $.50/rd. Nowadays you can buy reman 9mm for close to 20cpr, so I’m not sure about how much savings can be had in the smaller calibers.
What type of press should I look at?
Based on the primary reason I wanted to reload, my understanding is that a single stage press would accomplish this task well (if not better), but when it comes to reloading the rest, a progressive press would be best suited for cranking out range rounds. While quality is more of a requisite than quantity when it comes to the 111, the progressive (Dillon 550) is able to be converted into a single stage, no? If this is the case, then it may be in my best interest to go the progressive route.
Space setup
As I mentioned before, I was able to secure a larger 8x8 storage unit for no additional charge, which when coming from a 4x9 makes it seem like you have a whole extra room to use. Converting that space into a small workshop is great, which I’ll use for reloading, working on my 4Runner parts, etc. I plan on building one of the $50 workbenches that is floating around the internet (similar to this one http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=122393). A separate goal for me is that I’m trying to build it all from scrap wood found on craigslist or whatever because the bench will probably be temporary as I don’t want to move it with us once we move out of the apartment. So on that note, if you’ve got any extra 2x4’s or a sheet of plywood laying around northern VA let me know lol.
New or Used?
I’ve been keeping my eye out for the going rate of a used Dillon 550 and it seems that the majority are going for about $350 with the amount of accessories/dies accompanying them varying. When the machine is $450 new, the spread isn’t too large.There was one ad I came across that had a Dillon with a bunch of parts (didn’t have a list) and a MEC 9000 series going for about $900. That’s far more than I wanted to pay even with the MEC, but it gave me an understanding that the base machine doesn’t lose it's value much, the deal comes in the amount of dies/accessories that could come with a used package.
Literature
Most “so you want to start reloading” threads that I have come across often list a solid set of books/manuals to take a look at. Some of these lists seem to be brand specific, Hornady, Speer, Lyman, Nosler, etc.. Does a Hornady book still provide value if you’re not using Hornady bullets for example? Would buying the books before you even look at a press be advisable?
Components
This is probably the most convoluted topic for me. I understand the concept that in order to develop the best load you try multiple permutations of different variables until you find the combination that works best for your rifle. However. Where the heck do you start? In theory you start with a certain set of components and then change one out at a time. If you did that you could literally rack up thousands of dollars worth of powders, bullets, primers, cases that you’ll never use again? Am I missing something here? Research has led me to the fact that a lot of 111 ’06 shooters are finding success with 165 grain bullets. That’s a start, but that doesn’t narrow it down much. When most talk about buying powder by the pound, it’d be crazy to think that one would get a bulk quantity when you’re not even sure if it’s going to be a good match. Can you buy like sample sizes of different components to try them out and see what’s best for my specific case? Also, the rifle still has a stock barrel. When I replace the barrel, will I have to repeat the process over again? I’d think so, but it would at least give me a solid starting point I think if I already had a good load worked up for the rifle.
Hunting vs. Competing
Most of what I have read has based their reloading requirements on hunting and not competing in long range competitions. For those that do both, do you have a different load for each? If so, does that require you to re-zero your optic based on what load you’re using if you only have one rifle that serves double duty? I would assume you’d want a boat-tail low drag bullet for competition to give you the added accuracy and less resistance. On the flip side, you’d want a more rounded nose for hunting to provide more expansion than penetration, no? The round would undoubtedly go through the deer at under 100yds regardless of the nose type, but the expansion would pack a better punch for takedown?
Testing your loads
I think I have a fairly solid understanding on how to test your developed loads. Many have a bunch of different ways of going about it, I’d probably stick to a modified ladder system at first, then expand upon the various permutations once one variable has been identified as successful. I think the key to any load testing is just note taking. Record every result and analyze what you have in order to take the next step forward in narrowing down your selection. It would be a pain to have to wait a week in between testing a new set of loads, but I guess that’s life, right? Plus, I’d like to find a location where I could test them out at 300 yards, but I definitely don’t feel like I’m at that point yet.
Conclusions
So far those are the limits to my understanding of the reloading world as it pertains to my situation, I’m sure more will come up as time goes on. However, the biggest questions I have are in the Components and Hunting vs. Competing category. While I’d appreciate any remarks or opinions on my overall state of understanding, any experiences you guys have on those two categories would be extra appreciated. I'll probably cross-post over on the savage forum as I'm sure many there have gone through the same footsteps as well. As always, thanks for the breadth of information.
Jim Smith: You a funny man
