My Uncle's guns

[natsb]

I inherited a box with some guns in it and I need some help figuring out what I have. I have searched the web till I am blurry eyed so I am hoping someone with a lot of experience will say: "Oh, that is a such-and-such." I suspect these my end up at one of those "buyback" programs.

First is a single shot rifle that (from a rough measurement) seems to be a .45. It has no markings other than a "5" stamped near the trigger.

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The second one is a 12ga shotgun; also with no markings except for some sort of shield on the stock butt.

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The last one I think I got sorted out The barrel is marked Remington - Union Metallic Cartridge Company MARK III with the latest date stamp being 1902. Thanks with the help on this one. And now I know what the UMC stands for on those Remington ammo boxes.

 

[ken792]

Wow. The .45 rifle looks like a really rough, if not homebuilt, rolling block.

The middle shotgun looks like it's one of the countless low priced single barrel shotguns that were available in the early 20th century. Look for Belgian or British proof marks, as a lot were made overseas.

The pistol shotgun thing may be an AOW, especially if the short barrel is attached to it. With the long barrel, it might be an AOW anyway (though I think the ATF said something about pistol grip only shotguns being non-NFA if the barrel is over 18").

 

[Smitch521]

The last one looks like a Remington Mark III flare gun

 

[reverendbeer]

I inherited a box with some guns in it and I need some help figuring out what I have. I have searched the web till I am blurry eyed so I am hoping someone with a lot of experience will say: "Oh, that is a such-and-such." I suspect these my end up at one of those "buyback" programs.

Can we get full overall pics of #1 and #2?

 

[ohen cepel]

I think #2 is a Remington, maybe an 1893.

See if there are any marking on the barrel under the hand guard.

 

[Jimbob2.0]

I inherited a box with some guns in it and I need some help figuring out what I have. I have searched the web till I am blurry eyed so I am hoping someone with a lot of experience will say: "Oh, that is a such-and-such." I suspect these my end up at one of those "buyback" programs.

First is a single shot rifle that (from a rough measurement) seems to be a .45. It has no markings other than a "5" stamped near the trigger.

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The second one is a 12ga shotgun; also with no markings except for some sort of shield on the stock butt.

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The last one I think I know, but I don't understand the whole package. One of the barrels is marked Remington - Union Metallic Cartridge Company MARK III with the latest date stamp being 1902. Another barrel (attached) says Remington 12 Ga with a date stamp of 1890. The third barrel is the longer skinny one that slides into the attached 12ga barrel. I assume it is used for shooting a smaller gauge. The slide in barrel has no markings.

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Wow.........

No 3 looks like a Rem Mk III, what fools me is that slide in barrel. Looks like it might have been a bubba creation

 

[natsb]

Wow. The .45 rifle looks like a really rough, if not homebuilt, rolling block.

The middle shotgun looks like it's one of the countless low priced single barrel shotguns that were available in the early 20th century. Look for Belgian or British proof marks, as a lot were made overseas.

The pistol shotgun thing may be an AOW, especially if the short barrel is attached to it. With the long barrel, it might be an AOW anyway (though I think the ATF said something about pistol grip only shotguns being non-NFA if the barrel is over 18").

AOW? Not sure what that means.

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[CasualObserver]

Any Other Weapon

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/guides/importation-verification/firearms-verification-nfa-aow.html

 

[ken792]

AOW? Not sure what that means.

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Any Other Weapon, a classification of NFA item. If it's a flare pistol, then I think it will not be one, but a smoothbore pistol would be an AOW.

 

[Threeband]

If it's pre-1899, would it be exempt?

If so, can I has potato digger?

Number one looks like some sort of low-budget adaptation of the Rolling Block design, as was noted.

 

[natsb]

Any Other Weapon, a classification of NFA item. If it's a flare pistol, then I think it will not be one, but a smoothbore pistol would be an AOW.

Okay, that scared me. I just put the flare gun barrel on. Am I guessing right that the short Remington barrel needs to be destroyed? Or are collectors allowed to aquire these?

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[ken792]

Okay, that scared me. I just put the flare gun barrel on. Am I guessing right that the short Remington barrel needs to be destroyed? Or are collectors allowed to aquire these?

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I have no idea what the ATF considers the difference between a 12ga flare pistol and a 12ga shotgun, so I can't answer that for you. Collectors are allowed to acquire AOW's, with the proper NFA paperwork and a $5 tax stamp.

I have no idea of the legality of antique status NFA items when they take fixed cartridges. All I can say is do your research.

 

[reverendbeer]

I have no idea of the legality of antique status NFA items when they take fixed cartridges. All I can say is do your research.

I believe that's what he's trying to do here.

Before we get all OMGNFA we should figure out what it actually is.

 

[reverendbeer]

The last one I think I know, but I don't understand the whole package. One of the barrels is marked Remington - Union Metallic Cartridge Company MARK III with the latest date stamp being 1902. Another barrel (attached) says Remington 12 Ga with a date stamp of 1890. The third barrel is the longer skinny one that slides into the attached 12ga barrel. I assume it is used for shooting a smaller gauge. The slide in barrel has no markings.

This is a Remington Mark III 10ga flare pistol. A google image search shows your frame and action to be identical.

3 minutes of looking suggests the extra barrels aren't original...they might fit, but that might just be due to similar machining--and therefore not at all safe to use with it. Chucking them would not drop any value...which, after another google search, suggests is around $250-400.

The fore-grip doesn;t seem to be original...how is it attached?

 

[Machodoc]

This post brings up a point ...

If I were the OP, what I learned may have caused me to want to put the flare gun barrel back on and scrap uncle's questionably sketchy other barrels. I might also want to take down some of the original photos, too, but they'e been copied in a follow-up post (so that poster would have to take his down, too). These forums are open to a web search and can be viewed by anyone. Unless there's a need to do so, it's probably a good practice to edit out all of the long list of someone's photos when we post a reply. Just sayin' ...

 

[reverendbeer]

This is a Remington Mark III 10ga flare pistol. A google image search shows your frame and action to be identical.

3 minutes of looking suggests the extra barrels aren't original...they might fit, but that might just be due to similar machining--and therefore not at all safe to use with it. Chucking them would not drop any value...which, after another google search, suggests is around $250-400.

The fore-grip doesn;t seem to be original...how is it attached?

A little something I found on a preview on google books:

 

[reverendbeer]

This post brings up a point ...

If I were the OP, what I learned may have caused me to want to put the flare gun barrel back on and scrap uncle's questionably sketchy other barrels. I might also want to take down some of the original photos, too, but they'e been copied in a follow-up post (so that poster would have to take his down, too). These forums are open to a web search and can be viewed by anyone. Unless there's a need to do so, it's probably a good practice to edit out all of the long list of someone's photos when we post a reply. Just sayin' ...

I suspect the other barrels are either actual shotgun barrels that fit the action, or have been modified to do so. Either way, with a brass frame, anyone who uses them as shotgun barrels is just asking for an eyefull of brass.

There's no legal issue with the photos...as a legitimate inquiry, and as long as the flare barrel is on the weapon, the other barrels are just early 20th century shotgun barrels.

I'd still shitcan 'em tho. Well, unless OP wants to spring for a SBS registration and tax stamp...and a move to a different state.

 

[natsb]

Having no interest in AOW, I have destroyed the questionable barrels. They have been flattened, folded, and flattened again. I hope that counts as "shitcan 'em". Number 3 is now just a Mark III flare gun. One down two to go.

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[Machodoc]

Having no interest in AOW, I have destroyed the questionable barrels. They have been flattened, folded, and flattened again. I hope that counts as "shitcan 'em". Number 3 is now just a Mark III flare gun. One down two to go.

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I think that was a smart move. Sorry ... but I don't think your uncle left you a nest egg for retirement. Not even sure that I'd make an attempt to restore or revive the other two. It looks like really cobbled together stuff.

 

[Biggfoot44]

The buttplate design on #2 kinds , sorta resenbles an Owl. If so that is one of the logos of Iver Johnson. Or could have been a knockoff of an IJ made in Belgum to fool people into thinking it was an IJ . Standing by for the Joe formerly known as *Shotgun Joe* .