Need a good .38 Special Recipe

[august1410]

I have gotten a hold of 250 Berry's 125 grain plated bullets. I have both Titegroup and Bullseye powders.

I have spent the better part of an hour scouring the internet looking for a recipe for a decent target load and I am not finding a thing.

I have loaded plenty of 158 gr LRN with success. I have about 100 of those.

I bought the 125 grain to try a little something different. It's gonna be a target/range load, but I don't want a powderpuff bunny fart load.

Suggestions?

I'll be shooting them from a S&W Model 10-6 (4 inch heavy barrel)

 

[Magnumite]

Check the load manuals. You can use the same weight lead load charges as a guide. Alliant indicates 4.5 grains MAX using a Speer 125 grain Gold Dot. You can even try your 158 grain powder load behind the 125 grain plated bullet you have as a starting point. That typically falls into the starting load category for that bullet type/weight.

I agree with your goal, the bunny fart load often don't group well. I used to run 3.1 grains of Bullseye using 148 grain full wadcutters. Those were 820 fps loads as chrono'd at an Action Pistol match way back.

 

[StantonCree]

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=121117


So not what you have but should you find the ingredients take BYFs suggestions in my thread. At 25 yards my buddy had a 3 inch group with his Howard College Police model 10 trade in. I've only loaded 1K rounds but I've been very happy with my (BYFs) target loads!!!!

I apologize I can't 100% answer your question joe but check around for the ingredients.

Post 93 literally changed my life

 

[noylj]

First, I hate to say it but: don't buy bullets or powder unless you have load data.
Second: Any load you get, unless it is a start load, still has to be worked up from the start load
Third: Buy a manual. Richard Lee's #2 would probably be your best bet. Buy it, and at least one of the following and READ them: Lyman, Hornady, Speer.
Four: Check the bullet manufacturer's web site for information on loads. For plated bullets, the normal recommendation is to either use data for lead bullets or work up no higher than mid-range jacketed loads. Not to exceed 1200 fps or such.
Five: All lead/plated bullets of the same caliber and weight can be loaded using the same data. All lead-core jacketed bullets of the same caliber and weight can be loaded with the same data. The critical thing is: you start with the start load and work up. If you want data for a specific bullet, you need to buy bullets from Hornady, Speer, Sierra, and Barnes.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Last point above adressed first - Not necesarily. Bullets of same weight and material *could* have radically different seating depths, and hence effective powder space. Modify that with phrases like ; usually, similar shapes, and less than redline pressures, and less than near max load density, and the statement will be usually ok.

In general , seeking specific authoritative load data is a good thing. But Joe formerly known as Shotgun is speaking of Bullseye and .38spl here. A very forgiving a flexable pairing if ever was.

If you want to push more than 4.5gr, then seek out pressure testef data for specific combination. At other extreme, 3.0gr would feel like a powder puff load.

If you have access to a chrono, I would guess closr to 850-900fps is what you seek. If not, then your desired recoil level to be percieved as " target load, yet not powder puff" . Once in desired neighborhood, move a 0.1 or two up and down to see if groups are noticeably tighter. Or conversely mentally set a realistic par figure for accuraccy, and declare victory with first suitable load that meets it. ( ie, if I'm seeking a load to shoot 1.5in groups at whichever distance, I usually won't obsess over trying to tweeking it into a 1.25in loading. Unless I want to geek out over one hole groups as seperate hobby.

 

[august1410]

First, I hate to say it but: don't buy bullets or powder unless you have load data.
Second: Any load you get, unless it is a start load, still has to be worked up from the start load
Third: Buy a manual. Richard Lee's #2 would probably be your best bet. Buy it, and at least one of the following and READ them: Lyman, Hornady, Speer.
Four: Check the bullet manufacturer's web site for information on loads. For plated bullets, the normal recommendation is to either use data for lead bullets or work up no higher than mid-range jacketed loads. Not to exceed 1200 fps or such.
Five: All lead/plated bullets of the same caliber and weight can be loaded using the same data. All lead-core jacketed bullets of the same caliber and weight can be loaded with the same data. The critical thing is: you start with the start load and work up. If you want data for a specific bullet, you need to buy bullets from Hornady, Speer, Sierra, and Barnes.

You are making a lot of assumptions here. You are assuming I do not have a manual. You are assuming I have not looked at manufacturers websites, etc....

I am not new to reloading. I am simply asking then advice of folks I have known for years. Believe it or not, I trust some of the opinions of the folks here before I trust even some manufacturers load data.

 

[august1410]

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=121117


So not what you have but should you find the ingredients take BYFs suggestions in my thread. At 25 yards my buddy had a 3 inch group with his Howard College Police model 10 trade in. I've only loaded 1K rounds but I've been very happy with my (BYFs) target loads!!!!

I apologize I can't 100% answer your question joe but check around for the ingredients
Post 93 literally changed my life

I had forgotten about that thread altogether!

I'm going back and reading it.

 

[Magnumite]

Looked in my log book. That DEWC load shot into 2 3/16" groups out of a S&W K-38 Masterpiece I had, it was my cf Bullseye setup.

 

[alucard0822]

I load the same 125 plated bullet over 4.5gr bullseye to 1.45" with a cci spp and moderate roll crimp. Top 38 velocity just below +p, plenty accurate out to 50yds and just barely over 1,000fps in my 4" 686, you can go a bit lighter around 4gr, but I used them in IDPA and steel challenge and had to top 125PF. 38 is fairly low pressure anyway, and bullseye has a really wide range, from powder puff 3gr loads, to full power 5gr +p and plated still shoots good. Load them in 357 and you want a slower powder or heavier bullet, but even still have pushed 125 plated to 1400+fps with mid range powders and they still shoot well.

 

[august1410]

I load the same 125 plated bullet over 4.5gr bullseye to 1.45" with a cci spp and moderate roll crimp. Top 38 velocity just below +p, plenty accurate out to 50yds and just barely over 1,000fps in my 4" 686, you can go a bit lighter around 4gr, but I used them in IDPA and steel challenge and had to top 125PF. 38 is fairly low pressure anyway, and bullseye has a really wide range, from powder puff 3gr loads, to full power 5gr +p and plated still shoots good. Load them in 357 and you want a slower powder or heavier bullet, but even still have pushed 125 plated to 1400+fps with mid range powders and they still shoot well.

I have been using Bullseye for a long time and I like it. I have some Titegroup and have found on the Hodgdon website that between 3.2 and 3.8 grains of Titegroup is their recommended load.

A guy on the S&W forum used 3.4 gr of Titegroup and the same 125 gr Berry bullets with success.

I'm finding that a lot of folks load the Berry bullets with the lead bullet data because the plating is very thin, opposed to a Hornady, Speer, or any other manufacturer. I found this to be beneficial when I was loading .44 Special. I was able to use the lead bullet data and develop a .44 Special load that was low recoil, albeit not very accurate.

 

[303_enfield]

Read around here:
http://www.castpics.net/project2/CastDatalist.php?start=41

 

[pcfixer]

My wife has a Ruger LCR with 3" barrel. So found that Clays 3.1 load works well with 158 SWC for practice loads.
I use the same powder load with Berry's copper 158 grain bullets.

 

[alucard0822]

I have been using Bullseye for a long time and I like it. I have some Titegroup and have found on the Hodgdon website that between 3.2 and 3.8 grains of Titegroup is their recommended load.

A guy on the S&W forum used 3.4 gr of Titegroup and the same 125 gr Berry bullets with success.

I'm finding that a lot of folks load the Berry bullets with the lead bullet data because the plating is very thin, opposed to a Hornady, Speer, or any other manufacturer. I found this to be beneficial when I was loading .44 Special. I was able to use the lead bullet data and develop a .44 Special load that was low recoil, albeit not very accurate.

Problem is plated are really not jacketed or hardcast, they really are a 3rd category. They aren't as slippery through a barrel as lubed lead, aren't as tough as jacketed, even the manufacturers have different opinions, Rainier says to use lead data, Berry's says low-end jacketed, Xtreme says to use jacketed data. I've had the best luck with low-mid range jacketed data, the velocities end up in that range much more than the cast velocity range. Work up loads, if you go really light or heavy the bullets won't be accurate, especially in large low pressure cases like 38sp, 44sp, 45colt and so on, Bullseye, trailboss, W231, and unique outperform a lot of the more finicky powers like titegroup, or slower powders that don't light as well in cases full of air.

In 38 and 44spl, as is the case with most early smokeless calibers, the MAX pressures are only 17k and 15.5K psi respectively, so you can get a horrendous load spitting unburned powder in a bullet and powder probably desinged around the 20k-30k most newer handgun calibers run at. Increase the power charge in steps and it will get cleaner and more accurate, usually running over pressure for the caliber before you get pressure signs or accuracy loosening up.

 

[Bisleyfan44]

Problem is plated are really not jacketed or hardcast, they really are a 3rd category. They aren't as slippery through a barrel as lubed lead, aren't as tough as jacketed, even the manufacturers have different opinions, Rainier says to use lead data, Berry's says low-end jacketed, Xtreme says to use jacketed data. I've had the best luck with low-mid range jacketed data, the velocities end up in that range much more than the cast velocity range. Work up loads, if you go really light or heavy the bullets won't be accurate, especially in large low pressure cases like 38sp, 44sp, 45colt and so on, Bullseye, trailboss, W231, and unique outperform a lot of the more finicky powers like titegroup, or slower powders that don't light as well in cases full of air.

In 38 and 44spl, as is the case with most early smokeless calibers, the MAX pressures are only 17k and 15.5K psi respectively, so you can get a horrendous load spitting unburned powder in a bullet and powder probably desinged around the 20k-30k most newer handgun calibers run at. Increase the power charge in steps and it will get cleaner and more accurate, usually running over pressure for the caliber before you get pressure signs or accuracy loosening up.

^^ solid advice here ^^