NFA Untouched by Post Oct 1st Laws

[fabsroman]

Talking to my closest FFL dealer, he told me that his girl from ATF advised him against doing a release w/o a NICS #. Just saying. As happy as I am that dealers are doing 8th day releases, I sure hope it doesn't come back to bite them in the future. So much conflicting BS out there, all intentional no doubt.

See, this is the stuff that causes problems. Oh Lordy, your closest FFL dealer's ATF "girl" advised him against doing a release w/o a NICS #. Me, I want the "girl's" name. That way, I can call and confirm the position, or send a letter and confirm her position. Always better to leave a paper trail.

There has been thread after thread on here about how 8th day release is legal. This is being covered in the training sessions by ATF agents. They are showing dealers how to complete the paperwork for an 8th day release when there is no NICS number.

 

[Flipz]

Sounds like there was explicit confirmation of the "SBRs are exempt from copycat tests and named list tests" at the meeting yesterday, so that's promising progress.

Aaaaaarrrgggghhhhhh! This was confirmed at the FIRST meeting earlier this week. Thats why I started this thread. You just didnt want to believe it.

 

[fabsroman]

Guys, time to give it up and accept that things not banned in the law are not banned! This really is not monumental news! I have been saying that from the start. Of course it feels like a victory for gun owners after all thats been said here but man, MSP and the AG have said it. Even if a future MSP or AG change it in the future, it gives them little hope in any court battle. Plus they are correctly reading the law now, so we are ok. Give it up, SBRs are going to be OK. You can build your lower. You can get your gun with a purchase order post Oct!

The only question I still have is what is a purchase order, legally! No opinions please.

lol - so, no legal opinions either? There really is no definite answer to what a PO is. In normal business practices, a company issues a PO, with no deposit, to a vendor and the vendor fulfills the PO by delivering the product, at which time the vendor is either paid immediately or the vendor invoices the company that issued the PO.

So, you are pretty much going to have to go with what the MSP defines a PO as. In this case, it is essentially a written order for a firearm with some sort of deposit put in place. I wasn't there for the training seminars, so I did not hear this first hand. There's my disclaimer.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

lol - so, no legal opinions either? There really is no definite answer to what a PO is. In normal business practices, a company issues a PO, with no deposit, to a vendor and the vendor fulfills the PO by delivering the product, at which time the vendor is either paid immediately or the vendor invoices the company that issued the PO.

So, you are pretty much going to have to go with what the MSP defines a PO as. In this case, it is essentially a written order for a firearm with some sort of deposit put in place. I wasn't there for the training seminars, so I did not hear this first hand. There's my disclaimer.

Lol - ok, you got me. I welcome opinions of what it means legally. I was just trying to avoid everyone giving me their 2 cents as thats pretty meaningless as they are all different.

Here is the other odd thing about the PO think. If the purchaser (me) issues a PO to say Beretta. Beretta get the PO and sends the gun with a Bill! So when the gun comes in, the PO is not with it... Normally it would not come back to the buyer at all...

I do agree, its however MSP defines it. Thats why I sent that letter mid June and still have not gotten a reply...

 

[EHS1976]

I don't feel like wading through numerous pages in this thread to see if anyone posted something similiar, but the Striker 12 is on the "assault weapons" list, is an NFA firearm, and will be banned. Therefore, the broad notion that NFA firearms are untouched is not entirely true.

 

[Sticky]

Hate to burst your bubble, but it appears that this has changed in the past couple of days, according to the MSP report I got today from a buddy that has been in contact with them on a regular basis.. SBR's now seem to now fall under the 'copycat' and 'min length requirements' as stated in SB 281...

 

[IMBLITZVT]

I don't feel like wading through numerous pages in this thread to see if anyone posted something similiar, but the Striker 12 is on the "assault weapons" list, is an NFA firearm, and will be banned. Therefore, the broad notion that NFA firearms are untouched is not entirely true.

Good point... I am guessing we have a case of added to the list before it was determined to be a DD.

Hate to burst your...a regular basis.. SBR's now seem to now fall under the 'copycat' and 'min length requirements' as stated in SB 281...

Here we go again...

 

[Kingjamez]

Good point... I am guessing we have a case of added to the list before it was determined to be a DD.

Wording from the list:

(39) Striker 12 assault shotgun in all formats

I really expected your answer to be "It's not a shotgun... Not banned"

-Jim

 

[teratos]

Hate to burst your bubble, but it appears that this has changed in the past couple of days, according to the MSP report I got today from a buddy that has been in contact with them on a regular basis.. SBR's now seem to now fall under the 'copycat' and 'min length requirements' as stated in SB 281...

No. A copy cat has to be a rifle. This is the place where you need to suspend logic.......A SBR is not a rifle. It is a SBR.

 

[annihilation-time]

My buddy's sister's boyfriend's neighbor says SBRs aren't copy cats.

 

[Sticky]

No. A copy cat has to be a rifle. This is the place where you need to suspend logic.......A SBR is not a rifle. It is a SBR.

Well, if my buddy is right, the MSP will be reclarifying their position very soon do dealers, as this is contrary to what they have been telling them lately... I suspect we'll just have to wait and see next week..

 

[Sticky]

Just to clarify and validate him a bit, I know that for the past several weeks he has been on the phone (MSP) with them every couple of days, this was passed on to me this afternoon, much to both of our surprises. I would trust that this will be confirmed very shortly.

I think you have our illustrious AG to thank for this new interpretation of the law...

 

[fabsroman]

My buddy's sister's boyfriend's neighbor says SBRs aren't copy cats.

Heck, my buddy's sister's boyfriend's neighbor's cousin said "SB281? Gun control? Assault weapon ban? Whatcha talkin bout Willis?"

 

[teratos]

Just to clarify and validate him a bit, I know that for the past several weeks he has been on the phone (MSP) with them every couple of days, this was passed on to me this afternoon, much to both of our surprises. I would trust that this will be confirmed very shortly.

I think you have our illustrious AG to thank for this new interpretation of the law...

MSP said this week that NFA won't be touched. I may or may not know people who were and are very involved in this process.

 

[Kingjamez]

MSP said this week that NFA won't be touched. I may or may not know people who were and are very involved in this process.

That would be exceptionally encouraging.

 

[Sticky]

MSP said this week that NFA won't be touched. I may or may not know people who were and are very involved in this process.

I hope you are right, because this is a reversal from what they have been saying and this person admitted that to him.

For once, I hope the contact that my buddy had with them today is dead wrong!

 

[teratos]

I hope you are right, because this is a reversal from what they have been saying and this person admitted that to him.

For once, I hope the contact that my buddy had with them today is dead wrong!

It's the first post in this thread, and I have also discussed the issue with a couple FFL's I know who corroborate the information.

 

[Sticky]

It's the first post in this thread, and I have also discussed the issue with a couple FFL's I know who corroborate the information.

I realize that. Apparently he (MSP) was just as surprised and peeved as we were to hear him say that.... just repeating from a reliable source... again, I hope he was misinformed.. This apparently was just revealed yesterday to the MSP contact that he was talking to and is directly the opposite of what they were led to believe and what they have been telling dealers and FFL's the past couple of weeks.

 

[K-Romulus]

No. A copy cat has to be a rifle. This is the place where you need to suspend logic.......A SBR is not a rifle. It is a SBR.

I've been following this line of thought, and it was a head scratcher until I broke it down. Maybe this will help explain it:

1) "Rifle" = firearm with a rifled barrel that is at least 16" in length;

2) "Copycat weapon" = any "rifle" with a barrel at least 16" long, but with an overall firearm length of <29" = banned; basically the goal seems to be to ban bullpup configurations.

2) "AR15" = a subset of "rifles" = named "assault weapon"; if the AR15 has barrel of 16" or greater it is banned as an "Assault weapon."

3) SBR/"short barreled rifle" = firearm with a rifled barrel less than 16" in length.

4) SBR AR15 = firearm with a barrel less than 16" = not a "rifle" = not a banned "assault weapon."

That is some hair splitting right there, but it makes sense. No wonder I'm not a MD lawyer . . .

 

[teratos]

I realize that. Apparently he (MSP) was just as surprised and peeved as we were to hear him say that.... just repeating from a reliable source... again, I hope he was misinformed.. This apparently was just revealed yesterday to the MSP contact that he was talking to and is directly the opposite of what they were led to believe and what they have been telling dealers and FFL's the past couple of weeks.

IANAL.

In order for MD to ban NFA firearms, the law would have to specifically address them. It does not.