Nightvision AR

[ridethemessiah]

I'm about to embark on an AR build. A 5.56 upper with irons and a 6.8 upper with night optics. A company called ATN has some nice infrared scopes that are reasonably priced.

Does anyone currently use infrared optics? Is there any companies anyone would recommend?

 

[BenL]

The problem with night optics is that you get what you pay for. A good quality intensifier tube can be costly; do you have a rough budget, yet?

 

[RW2111]

What's your price range and what are you looking to do with it if your going to be doing a lot of moving with it I would try and stay away from Gen 1 there good if your looking at a stationary target but tend to loose focus when panning or rengaging

 

[ridethemessiah]

somewhere under a grand. It would just be a toy really. I'm prob goona set up some night time courses in the woods and just have fun.

But who knows, it may have a more important use in the future.

 

[jawn]

somewhere under a grand. It would just be a toy really. I'm prob goona set up some night time courses in the woods and just have fun.

But who knows, it may have a more important use in the future.

A grand for the optic or a grand for the rifle? Nightvision is definitely a you-get-what-you-pay-for kind of deal.

 

[ridethemessiah]

A grand for the optic or a grand for the rifle? Nightvision is definitely a you-get-what-you-pay-for kind of deal.

a grand for the optic.

 

[HT4]

If you are going to use a cheap NV scope ($1,000 is on the cheap end of these), make sure you also use a powerful IR illuminator... you will need it. But remember that you will look like a lighthouse to anyone else with NV gear.

 

[DarthZed]

Before you buy ANYTHING. Read this indepth article on ARF.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_18/329958_.html

It discusses the various generations and the author took 6 different units to test with real-world pictures to demonstrate their capabilites under various conditions. A real eye opener if you're considering a cheap gen 1, gen 2, or even gen 2+ unit.

 

[Jaybeez]

atn sells mostly foreign made nv, many are copies of us made stuff, and the quality from what I hear is subpar. I also hear that their customer service is lacking. the big problem with non milspec night vision devices, is the availability of replacement parts. with us made night vision, replacement parts will be around for decades, with foreign made night vision a simple leaky battery can turn your $1500 optic into a paperweight.

if you want something to mount on a 6.8 rifle, most off the shelf monos are out, they aren't rated for the recoil. dedicated night vision scopes are available that are rated for higher recoil, but they start at gen2+, and the cost is double your budget.

with monoculars, you pay for the extra head mounting gear, but you can aim with any gun thats equipped with a laser (visable or ir), and mount on 5.56 rifles behind a nv comparable red dot. they are way more versatile, because you can navigate in the dark without having to shoulder a rifle. I can walk, bike, drive a car, or ride an atv with mine, and with a laser on my pistol and rifle, shoot either.

double your budget and you should be able to find something gen3 used, which won't be a toy, it will actually be something useful. watch some night vision videos on YouTube, but don't watch the ones that are advertisements, to get an idea of the capabilities. gen3 is like having superpowers, its that good.

the only things actually useful near your budget would be devices like the pvs-4 (30 year old us surplus) and the zeiss Orion scopes (old German surplus). they don't have the image intensification, but their high quality optics make up for it somewhat. both scopes are rated for recoil and have illuminated reticles. the orions goes for about 800 and a working pvs-4 goes for about $1200.

I'm going to warn you though, the nv bug is a million times worse than black rifle disease. if you buy a mono, next you will want a $250base jump helmet, a $200 ir illuminater, and extra illuminater, a $900 dbal ir laser, a $3000 thermal to identify heat signatures of things you can't see with nv, $5000 bnvds to drive with, and you start checking the night vision forum on AR-15.com ten times a day just in case there is a new thread.

 

[ridethemessiah]

looks like gen2shp or gen 3 are the way to go

 

[Jaybeez]

looks like gen2shp or gen 3 are the way to go

except, since most of the stuff that has been written on that subject has been written, gen 2 shp prices have gone up into the range of used gen 3, so if you can afford gen 2 shp, you can afford gen 3. and everything gen 2 shp, is foreign made in foreign bodies. parts for foreign things like the d-300 gen 2 that was all the rage 5 years ago are all but dried up.

so really the choice is gen 3.

tnvc has started producing new high spec pvs-14s in house recently, starting at around $2500 and with the warranty they carry, they are one of the best values out there.

prices on gen 3 haven't gotten cheaper, because it keeps getting better (omni 3 through omni 8), and now with layoffs because of lowered mil demand, production will be going down too.

 

[ridethemessiah]

atn sells mostly foreign made nv, many are copies of us made stuff, and the quality from what I hear is subpar. I also hear that their customer service is lacking. the big problem with non milspec night vision devices, is the availability of replacement parts. with us made night vision, replacement parts will be around for decades, with foreign made night vision a simple leaky battery can turn your $1500 optic into a paperweight.

if you want something to mount on a 6.8 rifle, most off the shelf monos are out, they aren't rated for the recoil. dedicated night vision scopes are available that are rated for higher recoil, but they start at gen2+, and the cost is double your budget.

with monoculars, you pay for the extra head mounting gear, but you can aim with any gun thats equipped with a laser (visable or ir), and mount on 5.56 rifles behind a nv comparable red dot. they are way more versatile, because you can navigate in the dark without having to shoulder a rifle. I can walk, bike, drive a car, or ride an atv with mine, and with a laser on my pistol and rifle, shoot either.

double your budget and you should be able to find something gen3 used, which won't be a toy, it will actually be something useful. watch some night vision videos on YouTube, but don't watch the ones that are advertisements, to get an idea of the capabilities. gen3 is like having superpowers, its that good.

the only things actually useful near your budget would be devices like the pvs-4 (30 year old us surplus) and the zeiss Orion scopes (old German surplus). they don't have the image intensification, but their high quality optics make up for it somewhat. both scopes are rated for recoil and have illuminated reticles. the orions goes for about 800 and a working pvs-4 goes for about $1200.

I'm going to warn you though, the nv bug is a million times worse than black rifle disease. if you buy a mono, next you will want a $250base jump helmet, a $200 ir illuminater, and extra illuminater, a $900 dbal ir laser, a $3000 thermal to identify heat signatures of things you can't see with nv, $5000 bnvds to drive with, and you start checking the night vision forum on AR-15.com ten times a day just in case there is a new thread.

yeah i've been on ar15.com since your post. I can see this NV thing completely draining my bank account

the IR lasers are effin sweet.

 

[Jaybeez]

yeah i've been on ar15.com since your post. I can see this NV thing completely draining my bank account

the IR lasers are effin sweet.

snipers hide has a night vision forum, as does the wolverine technologies webpage, but neither have the tech info and traffic as arfcom. there is a nightvisionforum.com , but it also doesn't get much traffic, and it has a lot of info on foreign stuff. the exact same people are on all those sites, except for the ones that have been banned from arfcom.

 

[ridethemessiah]

snipers hide has a night vision forum, as does the wolverine technologies webpage, but neither have the tech info and traffic as arfcom. there is a nightvisionforum.com , but it also doesn't get much traffic, and it has a lot of info on foreign stuff. the exact same people are on all those sites, except for the ones that have been banned from arfcom.

christ, i'm gonna have 5k worth of IR stuff just so i have the means to make fried squirrell legs any time of night.

 

[Jstevens56]

I'm a civilian but a few years ago I was using my buddies night vision scope that was military issued, it was probably in the neighborhood of a $10k device if I had to guess, I'll tell you what though, that thing was amazing. I can't imagine a night vision scope that cost $1k would be that great. If it were me I'd rather get a nice optic without night vision. Just my two cents.

 

[ridethemessiah]

wonder what this puppy cost. http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=18&t=206472

 

[Jaybeez]

wonder what this puppy cost. http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=18&t=206472

the m938 is the civilian version of the brittish military Kite scope. I've seen the m937 gen 2 go used for as little as $1200 on eBay, but being mostly foreign parts are hard to come by. its a nice scope but not very durable iirc.

that thread is from 2006 and the info is horribly outdated.

 

[DarthZed]

I almost bought a surplus Zeiss Orion scope a few years ago when they were $500. Sure wish I had bought one back then.

This NV Scope has gotten good reviews (for its clarity and light amplification) if you don't want to spend a fortune.

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/pulsar-n550-digisight-night-vision-scope.aspx?a=762739

It has a polymer housing, so not for heavy duty/military use. But it supposedly gives you gen 3 capabilites for $1300. I was thinking about picking one up. Reviews on various forums have been very positive.

 

[ridethemessiah]

I almost bought a surplus Zeiss Orion scope a few years ago when they were $500. Sure wish I had bought one back then.

This NV Scope has gotten good reviews (for its clarity and light amplification) if you don't want to spend a fortune.

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/pulsar-n550-digisight-night-vision-scope.aspx?a=762739

It has a polymer housing, so not for heavy duty/military use. But it supposedly gives you gen 3 capabilites for $1300. I was thinking about picking one up. Reviews on various forums have been very positive.

so that thing is a gen3?

Jaybeez, you know anything about this?

 

[Jaybeez]

so that thing is a gen3?

Jaybeez, you know anything about this?

its a digital "night vision", its better than gen 1 in some respects, but it has some major drawbacks. its nowhere near gen 3 quality.

when you look through the scope you are looking at a lower resolution lcd screen. it amplifies lower light by reducing the refresh rate, in essence taking a longer exposure photograph, that causes streaking and a blurry time elapse type effect. if you have ever taken a low light digital photo, the camera has to stay completely still or you blurred your image. if you move the pulsar you lose your image for a moment, you have to keep it still.

its as dependant on ir illumination as gen 1. it can see further than gen 1, but the resolution of the lcd sucks compared to gen 2, so even seeing further you can't see details. its nowhere near a gen 3. marketing hype at its finest.

if you want to play with digital, the xgen night mono is $120 at optics planet with the arfcom discount, it will work as well as the pulsar, which is about as well as a toy.

if you want a good toy, there is a tutorial on arfcom on building a homemade scope using a surplus gen 1 cascade tube. its uses 3 gen 1 tubes in line to amplify each other and boost its gain. they can be built for around $300.