No more SBRs

[11b10]

I get it Drew, I am not a lawyer either, but I own SBR's as do you, and they never refer to them as pistols even if they were at one time. I think alot of people who have never filled paper work and have no idea how the process works, come up with their own hypothesis that since MD at one time considered the weapon a pistol, if I SBR it it is still technically a pistol; and the biggie that they do not get is you are manufacturing a new weapon, thus the engraving of manufacturer on the weapon.

 

[NateIU10]

I get it Drew, I am not a lawyer either, but I own SBR's as do you, and they never refer to them as pistols even if they were at one time. I think alot of people who have never filled paper work and have no idea how the process works, come up with their own hypothesis that since MD at one time considered the weapon a pistol, if I SBR it it is still technically a pistol; and the biggie that they do not get is you are manufacturing a new weapon, thus the engraving of manufacturer on the weapon.

Yes, I know how the process goes. Under Maryland law it states, in the definition of handgun, that this includes short barreled rifles, and excludes rifles. Also, you are not the manufacturer under federal law, you are the maker.

A short barreled rifle, under MD law, cannot be a rifle. Therefore, it is not subject to copycat provisions.

 

[NateIU10]

Do you know what the ATF NFA registry is? To get an SBR you must
(1) buy an existing one on a form 4-
(2) have a SOT take your weapon and file a form forget which, when this comes back to the SOT (as the maker) they can transfer to you upon approval and wait on form 4-
(3) you can file a form 1 wait for approval, than either ad a stock or cut the barrel. (yourself as the maker)

The last two options since they are not EXISTING weapons- you or the SOT are engraved on the receiver (your name or SOT name, Town and state) of said weapon as the MANUFACTURER. Get it. As for the weapon being a pistol or a rifle is irrelevant once it is papered. It is now an SBR registered with the NFA and thus unless un-registered and restored to comply with the law, will never in SBR registered form be considered a pistol or rifle, by the state or the feds.

It is far from irrelevant. In Maryland, copycat weapons are banned. A copycat is a semi auto rifle. If, under MD law, the firearm is not a rifle, the 29" or evil features do not matter.

 

[Atlasarmory]

I've lost track of this thread is anything known for certain or is the sbr situation still clear as mud ?

 

[11b10]

Yes, I know how the process goes. Under Maryland law it states, in the definition of handgun, that this includes short barreled rifles, and excludes rifles. Also, you are not the manufacturer under federal law, you are the maker.

A short barreled rifle, under MD law, cannot be a rifle. Therefore, it is not subject to copycat provisions.

(c) Handgun.-

(1) "Handgun" means a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person.

(2) "Handgun" includes a short-barreled shotgun and a short-barreled rifle.

(3) "Handgun" does not include a shotgun, rifle, or antique firearm.

I think you are missing the point, first line they define handgun as being able to be concealed, and (other firearm) not defined. They then also include in line 2 SBR's since they can be concealed. Just because they include SBR in this does not mean they are exempt from SB 281. The state also goes on to define SBR and illegal ownership based on ATF regulations. So they can include any (other) fire arm they choose that can be concealed, and SBR's not just pistols and revolvers.

(f) Short-barreled rifle.- "Short-barreled rifle" means:

(1) a rifle that has one or more barrels less than 16 inches long; or

(2) a weapon that has an overall length of less than 26 inches and that was made from a rifle, whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise.

They just defined SBR for you in the above, they (include) it as a hand gun for concellability but define it in the above citing.

 

[NateIU10]

(c) Handgun.-

(1) "Handgun" means a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person.

(2) "Handgun" includes a short-barreled shotgun and a short-barreled rifle.

(3) "Handgun" does not include a shotgun, rifle, or antique firearm.

I think you are missing the point, first line they define handgun as being able to be concealed, and (other firearm) not defined. They then also include in line 2 SBR's since they can be concealed. Just because they include SBR in this does not mean they are exempt from SB 281. The state also goes on to define SBR and illegal ownership based on ATF regulations. So they can include any (other) fire arm they choose that can be concealed, and SBR's not just pistols and revolvers.

(f) Short-barreled rifle.- "Short-barreled rifle" means:

(1) a rifle that has one or more barrels less than 16 inches long; or

(2) a weapon that has an overall length of less than 26 inches and that was made from a rifle, whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise.

They just defined SBR for you in the above, they (include) it as a hand gun for concellability but define it in the above citing.

I never said they are exempt from the entirety of 281. Depending on interpretation/enforcement, I could see issues with banned platforms even if SBRd. That has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm saying though. I believe you may be missing my point. I don't think you really understand statutory construction/interpretation to be honest.

I don't know how I could be clearer. Words have meaning, and in a statute, definitions matter. A Handgun CANNOT be a rifle under (C)(3). A Handgun includes SBRs under (C)(2). (F) is simply defining what an SBR is, just as the first portion is simply defining what a Handgun is.

I do not understand where your confusion is coming from. Just because a term is defined does not take it out of another definition. An SBR is an SBR, obviously, but an SBR is also a Handgun under MD law. If Copycats regulate Rifles, it certainly matters that SBRs are Handguns.

 

[annihilation-time]

I've lost track of this thread is anything known for certain or is the sbr situation still clear as mud ?

Still clear as mud.

 

[erwos]

I was told that the official inquiry from August still had not received a response. It was theorized that the lawsuit might have delayed it.

 

[Kingjamez]

I've lost track of this thread is anything known for certain or is the sbr situation still clear as mud ?

Still waiting on an official response. In the mean time, Internet Lawyers pontificate like they are Harvard Law professors.

Thanks again erwos for getting the letter sent! It'll be nice when we actually have a real answer.

-Jim

 

[Devil Dog]

Still waiting on an official response. In the mean time, Internet Lawyers pontificate like they are Harvard Law professors.

Thanks again erwos for getting the letter sent! It'll be nice when we actually have a real answer.

-Jim

+1

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[erwos]

Thanks again erwos for getting the letter sent! It'll be nice when we actually have a real answer.

dblas and fabrosman deserve way more credit than me for the letter.

 

[Drew1340]

here is the problem we are logically looking at and ultimately analyzing md law.... that is our problem.. logically.. and with the every growing issues in the courts seeming to say who cares to the constitution or the words they have written as law... we would probably still be screwed though my thoughts are **** em submit a form one and roll the dice... thats what i will do and see what happens... as i wait on my other stamps to come in when the atf gets back to work

 

[swinokur]

I submitted a Form 4 on Oct. 2. The check was cashed yesterday. Somebody is working.

 

[huesmann]

I submitted a Form 4 on Oct. 2. The check was cashed yesterday. Somebody is working.

Yeah--the guys in the accounting department.

 

[awptickes]

Yeah--the guys in the accounting department.

Everyone is back to work today, except the folks who decided to take leave.

 

[johny357]

will the MSP still sign off for a SBR?

 

[Devil Dog]

I can't recommend a trust any more highly. Avoid the whole CLEO veto/delay.


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[swinokur]

No one seems to know. I. The question is what will MSP do with a Form 1 submitted after Oct. 1.

But I don't think we have an answer. We are waiting on an opinion from MSP that has been submitted AFAIK.

 

[tc617]

I understand that this is an SBR thread but no one talks much about AOWs... Can you build an AOW that is less than 29" under SB281?

The ATF states that it would have to be below 26" or the firearm fails the definition of an AOW.

I am guessing that a pre-Oct 1 AR-15 lower would be okay, but what about a pre-ban AKM receiver?

 

[Devil Dog]

No one seems to know. I. The question is what will MSP do with a Form 1 submitted after Oct. 1.

But I don't think we have an answer. We are waiting on an opinion from MSP that has been submitted AFAIK.

Do we know what member of the GA sent in the request?