Non-citizen shooters

[Yankee]

I'm an Australian citizen married to Baltimore girl and I'm hoping to get some advice about how I can legally purchase a firearm in MD. We live down-under at the moment but visit Maryland at least once a year where I'd like to teach my son how to shoot. I grew up on a farm where guns were the norm and I served in the military but since 1996, owning a firearm has become all but impossible in Australia. Obviously my wife is a US citizen but growing up in Pikesville, she hasn't touched a gun in her life and wouldn't dream of setting foot in a gun shop let alone purchasing a weapon. I want to get a .22 for my son but would also like to get something for myself like a Remington 700 or something similar. If anyone has any experience as a non-resident or advice they can give, I'd love to hear from you.

 

[VNVGUNNER]

Welcome to the forum, can't help you with your question, but stick around,
someone here might be able to help you.

 

[DD214]

Welcome to the forum, can't help you with your question, but stick around,
someone here might will be able to help you.

Fixed.

Welcome to the forum! If you keep up with this forum before your next trip, you could probably find someone to go shooting with as well. We have regular forum shoots where you would be free to shoot/handle pretty much any kind of weapon that you can think of. As for your original question, someone will be able to give you an answer shortly I'm sure.

 

[novus collectus]

I'm an Australian citizen married to Baltimore girl and I'm hoping to get some advice about how I can legally purchase a firearm in MD. We live down-under at the moment but visit Maryland at least once a year where I'd like to teach my son how to shoot. I grew up on a farm where guns were the norm and I served in the military but since 1996, owning a firearm has become all but impossible in Australia. Obviously my wife is a US citizen but growing up in Pikesville, she hasn't touched a gun in her life and wouldn't dream of setting foot in a gun shop let alone purchasing a weapon. I want to get a .22 for my son but would also like to get something for myself like a Remington 700 or something similar. If anyone has any experience as a non-resident or advice they can give, I'd love to hear from you.

First of all you can get around all the federal firearms laws dealing with "aliens" by buying and shooting "antique" cap and ball or flintlock firearms if you wanted to. There are some decent cap and ball revolvers sold here that you can pick up new for a few hundred dollars. http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...ing=&cmCat=netcon&parentType=subcategory&rid=

As far as modern firearms goes, it depends on if you are a resident alien or not. Generally speaking though it is possible for you to purchase a firearm while here with different scenarios depending on your alien status.

(B13) May aliens legally in the United States buy firearms?[Back]

An alien legally in the U.S. may acquire firearms if he has a State of residence. An alien has a State of residence only if he is residing in that State and has resided in a State continuously for at least 90 days prior to the purchase. An alien acquiring firearms from a licensee is required to prove both his identity, by presenting a government-issued photo identification, and his residency with substantiating documentation showing that he has resided in the State continuously for the 90-day period prior to the purchase. Examples of qualifying documentation to prove residency include: utility bills, lease agreements, credit card statements, and pay stubs from the purchaser’s place of employment, if such documents include residential addresses.

See also Item 5, “Sales to Aliens in the United States,” in the General Information section of this publication.

[18 U.S.C. 921, 922(b)(3), (d) and (g), 27 CFR 478.11 and 478.99(a)]

(R1) May nonimmigrant aliens legally in the United States purchase or possess firearms and ammunition while in the United States?

Nonimmigrant aliens generally are prohibited from possessing or receiving (purchasing) firearms and ammunition in the United States.

There are exceptions to this general prohibition. The exceptions are as follows:

1.

nonimmigrant aliens who possess a valid (unexpired) hunting license or permit lawfully issued by a State in the United States;

2. nonimmigrant aliens entering the United States to participate in a competitive target shooting event or to display firearms at a sports or hunting trade show sponsored by a national, State, or local firearms trade organization devoted to the collection, competitive use or other sporting use of firearms;

3. certain diplomats, if the firearms are for official duties;

4. officials of foreign governments, if the firearms are for official duties, or distinguished foreign visitors so designated by the U.S. State Department;

5. foreign law enforcement officers of friendly foreign governments entering the United States on official law enforcement business; and

6. persons who have received a waiver from the prohibition from the U.S. Attorney General.

Significantly, even if a nonimmigrant alien falls within one of these exceptions, the nonimmigrant alien CANNOT purchase a firearm from a Federal firearms licensee (FFL) unless he or she (1) has an alien number or admission number from the Department of Homeland Security (formerly the Immigration and Naturalization Service) AND (2) can provide the FFL with documentation showing that he or she has resided in a State within the United States for 90 consecutive days immediately prior to the firearms transaction.

[18 U.S.C. 922(g)(5)(b) and 922(y), 27 CFR 478.124, ATF Rul. 2004-1]

(R2) Typically, who are "nonimmigrant aliens?"

In large part, nonimmigrant aliens are persons traveling temporarily in the United States for business or pleasure, persons studying in the United States who maintain a foreign residence abroad, and certain foreign workers. Permanent resident aliens are NOT nonimmigrant aliens. Permanent resident aliens often are referred to as people with "green cards."

A few things to note here, you cannot even touch the "ammunition" (ammunition is self contained and primed, cartridges readily available through normal means of commercial trade that has been involved in interstate commerce) unless you fit into one of the above exceptions. Now firing on a gun range on an FFL's (Federal Firearms Licensee or a "dealer) property without one of the above exceptions is a gray area in the law, but there is an easy way around all this as I understand it. If you get the hunting license you can posses ammunition, modern firearms, use the firearms and in certain situations purchase firearms to either keep here or take home with you.

Now I had family come down from Canada and I wanted to take them shooting so I looked up how hard it is to get a hunting license. Here in MD there is a hunting license that you do not need a hunter safety class for and it only costs six dollars (Regulated Shooting Area Hunting License). If you get one of those and live in MD for 90 days and can prove it, then you should be able to legally purchase the firearm for use here.

(I am not a lawyer)

(R9) I am a nonimmigrant alien who is on a month-long vacation in the United States. I have a hunting license and an admission number. Can I legally buy a firearm from a Federal firearms licensee (FFL) in the United States and take possession of it in the United States?

No. You cannot legally buy a firearm from an FFL and take possession of it in the U.S. because you have not resided in a State within the United States for 90 days.



(R10) I am a nonimmigrant alien. I'm coming to the United States for 2 weeks. I do not have a hunting license or any alien or admission number. Can I buy a firearm from a Federal firearms licensee (FFL) to take back to my home country?

You may not buy a firearm and take possession of it in the United States. However, the FFL may directly export the firearm to your home country. If the FFL directly exports it, you do not need a hunting license, alien number or admission number, or 90 days of State residency. However, the FFL first must obtain an export license from the Department of State or, if the firearm is a sporting shotgun, from the Department of Commerce.

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faqindex.htm

 

[Numidian]

Isn't he a citizen through marriage?

 

[DD214]

Isn't he a citizen through marriage?

No such thing anymore.

 

[fivepointstar]

I'm an Australian citizen married to Baltimore girl and I'm hoping to get some advice about how I can legally purchase a firearm in MD. We live down-under at the moment but visit Maryland at least once a year where I'd like to teach my son how to shoot. I grew up on a farm where guns were the norm and I served in the military but since 1996, owning a firearm has become all but impossible in Australia. Obviously my wife is a US citizen but growing up in Pikesville, she hasn't touched a gun in her life and wouldn't dream of setting foot in a gun shop let alone purchasing a weapon. I want to get a .22 for my son but would also like to get something for myself like a Remington 700 or something similar. If anyone has any experience as a non-resident or advice they can give, I'd love to hear from you.

Welcome!! Long guns are going to be a problems but buying a handgun will if you're not a MD resident. How long will you be in MD, just on a vacation or as a resident alien status. You can always rent a handgun at a local indoor range to teach your son

 

[novus collectus]

Isn't he a citizen through marriage?

I believe he still has to be naturalized. If he does not apply then he cannot start the naturalization as I understand......but you know what? The child by his American wife is automatically a US citizen and with proper proof of citizenship can possess and own ammunition and long guns in MD if they are not regulated (and over 15, or under 16 if he had a hunter safety course) as I understand it.

 

[Half-cocked]

Yankee - welcome! ...I'm half Aussie (dad was from NSW, emigrated in the 50's) myself.

 

[Rattlesnake46319]

I believe he still has to be naturalized. If he does not apply then he cannot start the naturalization as I understand......but you know what? The child by his American wife is automatically a US citizen and with proper proof of citizenship can possess and own ammunition and long guns in MD if they are not regulated (and over 15, or under 16 if he had a hunter safety course) as I understand it.

Additionally, unless your wife has renounced her US citizenship, she should be able to purchase. Granted, home address would be an issue.

Why does this remind me of being 18 and trying to get someone to buy beer for me?

 

[DD214]

I believe he still has to be naturalized.

Correct, but there is a LOT more to it than that. For instance, he would have to live in the US for 5 years before he would even be eligible to apply for naturalization.

 

[novus collectus]

Correct, but there is a LOT more to it than that. For instance, he would have to live in the US for 5 years before he would even be eligible to apply for naturalization.

Three years for a spouse residing in the US.

This page, part of the Naturalization information, lists some of the Waivers, Exceptions and Special Cases to the normal waiting period of five (5) years before attaining minimum eligibility to apply for Naturalization.

Family Members of U.S. Citizens

Spouses of U.S. Citizens

Generally, certain lawful permanent residents married to a U.S. citizen may file for naturalization after residing continuously in the United States for three years if immediately preceding the filing of the application:

*
the applicant has been married to and living in a valid marital union with the same U.S. citizen spouse for all three years;
o
the U.S. spouse has been a citizen for all three years and meets all physical presence and residence requirements; and
o
the applicant meets all other naturalization requirements.


There are also exceptions for lawful permanent residents married to U.S. citizens stationed or employed abroad. Some lawful permanent residents may not have to comply with the residence or physical presence requirements when the U.S. citizen spouse is employed by one of the following:

*
the U.S. Government (including the U.S. Armed Forces);
*
American research institutes recognized by the Attorney General;
*
recognized U.S. religious organizations;
*
U.S. research institutions;
*
an American firm engaged in the development of foreign trade and commerce of the United States; or
*
certain public international organizations involving the United States.

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/us...nnel=d6f4194d3e88d010VgnVCM10000048f3d6a1RCRD

I think this is how it was when my mom became naturalized in the 1960s. I recall she said it took only three years for her too.

 

[JeepDriver]

Welcome to the Forum, buying a gun for a non citizen isn't all that complicated. My best friend is a British Citizen on a PR card (married to an American) and owns legal machine guns here in the USA. It's all about the paper work!


1. Get your PR card
2. establish residency in Maryland (Drivers License) and provide proof of 90 days residency (BGE Bill w/ your name on it)
3. Bring money, PR card and the 90 days proof to the gun store.

If/when you are ready let me know, I'll sort you out. We sell to a lot of non-citizens & people with PR cards.

If you are only coming to visit the USA, there is Continental Arms Indoor Pistol Range in Timonium that you and your son can go to and rent pistols and a few pistol caliber rifles.

If you want to shoot larger stuff (centerfire rifles) I'm sure we can arange something with a few members here.

My wife is British as well, so everytime someone comes over to visit a range trip is always on thier list of things to do.

 

[novus collectus]

...
2. establish residency in Maryland (Drivers License) and provide proof of 90 days residency (BGE Bill w/ your name on it)


....

I was reading the FAQ page for ATF FFL newsletters last night and they said they need a utility bill from each of the three months and just one won't be enough.

Q. Is a single monthly utility bill sufficient to establish proof that an alien has resided in a state for the 90-day residency requirement to purchase a firearm?

A. No, the alien should provide at least one utility bill per month to verify residence for the past 90 days. This would also apply to mail that is used as proof of residency. The mail should reflect that the alien purchaser is a current resident and prove that the alien has lived at that residence for at least 90 days.

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/fflnewsltrfaqindex.htm

 

[JeepDriver]

I was reading the FAQ page for ATF FFL newsletters last night and they said they need a utility bill from each of the three months and just one won't be enough.
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/fflnewsltrfaqindex.htm

Correct, 90 days proof of residency on 3 seperate bills

 

[SigMatt]

I'm an Australian citizen married to Baltimore girl and I'm hoping to get some advice about how I can legally purchase a firearm in MD. We live down-under at the moment but visit Maryland at least once a year where I'd like to teach my son how to shoot. I grew up on a farm where guns were the norm and I served in the military but since 1996, owning a firearm has become all but impossible in Australia. Obviously my wife is a US citizen but growing up in Pikesville, she hasn't touched a gun in her life and wouldn't dream of setting foot in a gun shop let alone purchasing a weapon. I want to get a .22 for my son but would also like to get something for myself like a Remington 700 or something similar. If anyone has any experience as a non-resident or advice they can give, I'd love to hear from you.

Hello Yankee and welcome!

I'm a non-resident (US Permanent Resident). Everyone's given you correct information but I'm going to approach this based on my interpretation of what you are asking.

If your situation is that you and your wife come here to visit and when you do, you want to have a firearm to use for recreation, etc, then I'm sorry to say it will not be possible for you to buy one under any of the laws listed by others here due to the residency requirement.

Because you are not a US citizen, not a permanent resident and at this time, not falling into the "hunter exception" (a very little known aspect of firearms ownership here by the way) at this time, the only way you can acquire a firearm for the household is if your wife buys it. There is no way around it.

However, because you both don't live here and have no established state residency, the point is moot. Even your wife as a US citizen would be unable to acquire a firearm unless she has resided in a state for at least 30 days. So unless she maintains a permanent address here, gets at least one bill at that address and her US issued identification is tied to that address, she will be unable to buy a gun under any circumstance.

Rules vary from state to state but the 30 day residency requirement appears to be across the board.

On a tangent, I find the residency thing to be interesting since it essentially creates a restriction on a right. If a US citizen moves from one state to another, for 30 days they will be unable to purchase a firearm until they establish residency in the new state. It might be possible for them to purchase it in their old state but then that falls into a questionable legal grey area. You would be violating the law as written because you would be lying on ATF 4473 (and any state forms) by misrepresenting your state of residence.

Perhaps with Heller settled that might become an interesting future point of challenge.

For legal aliens such as myself, I have no recourse. The 90 day residency requirement would still apply. I hated moving because I was essentially cut off from buying any guns for three months.

Best of luck to you, Yankee. Based on what I've read here, black powder is your only option in the short term until you and your wife move back here and then somehow convince her to set foot in a gun shop.

Matt

 

[boatbod]

Yup, Jeep and MPickering pretty much nailed it. You need to be a LPR (legal permanent resident) and resident of a State to be able to buy your own guns. If you don't fit into that category yet (I recall you said you were living in Australia and only visiting MD once a year), then it should be pretty easy to get your LPR if you plan on relocating to the US in the near future. (LPR for a spouse of a US citizen takes approximately 9-10 months, assuming no holdups during processing.)

FWIW, I moved to the US on an H1B visa in 1998, got my LPR through employment sponsorship in 2001 and became a US citizen in 2006. Dealing with USCIS was never much fun, but I do know a fair bit about the various processes if you ever need any help.

 

[h2u]

Is it me or is anyone else wondering why a guy from Australia came to the US and married someone from BALTIMORE...................funny, I never saw any wedding announcements about Stacy Keibler

 

[Yankee]

Thanks everyone

Wow, what a great forum. Thanks for so many detailed and informed replies. It looks as though I have a few options such as black powder, renting at a range or my preferred option of making some new friends. I plan to start building up evidence of Maryland residency next time I'm over there by getting my drivers licence, opening a savings account and hopefully I can convince the wife to move back to the US permanently in the coming years.

I'll start a new thread to give you guys a better understanding of just how bad gun laws are in Australia.

 

[novus collectus]

Hello Yankee and welcome!

I'm a non-resident (US Permanent Resident). Everyone's given you correct information but I'm going to approach this based on my interpretation of what you are asking.

If your situation is that you and your wife come here to visit and when you do, you want to have a firearm to use for recreation, etc, then I'm sorry to say it will not be possible for you to buy one under any of the laws listed by others here due to the residency requirement.

Because you are not a US citizen, not a permanent resident and at this time, not falling into the "hunter exception" (a very little known aspect of firearms ownership here by the way) at this time, the only way you can acquire a firearm for the household is if your wife buys it. There is no way around it.

There are two, maybe three and maybe four ways he can aquire a firearm.
One, which is unlikely and not sure when it is applied, but he can get an exception from the Attorney General.
Two, and this is only if he has a hunting license, is make his own.
Three, not sure about this one, but with a hunting license a private purchase from a non-licensee.
Four, as you alluded to too, antiques and muzzloaders he can purchase without a hunting license. However, for the antiques that fire modern ammo he needs a hunting license to possess the cartridges.

However, because you both don't live here and have no established state residency, the point is moot. Even your wife as a US citizen would be unable to acquire a firearm unless she has resided in a state for at least 30 days. So unless she maintains a permanent address here, gets at least one bill at that address and her US issued identification is tied to that address, she will be unable to buy a gun under any circumstance.

Rules vary from state to state but the 30 day residency requirement appears to be across the board.

On a tangent, I find the residency thing to be interesting since it essentially creates a restriction on a right. If a US citizen moves from one state to another, for 30 days they will be unable to purchase a firearm until they establish residency in the new state. It might be possible for them to purchase it in their old state but then that falls into a questionable legal grey area. You would be violating the law as written because you would be lying on ATF 4473 (and any state forms) by misrepresenting your state of residence.

The ATF says with "intent" to establish a residence in the state. So technically speaking if she could prove she resides in that state the day she arrives, then she should theoretically allowed to buy the firearm.
Of course for practical purposes I see why one would need the first utility bill after 30 days for proof for the FFL.

(B11) What constitutes residency in a State? [Back]

The State of residence is the State in which an individual is present; the individual also must have an intention of making a home in that State. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. If a member of the Armed Forces maintains a home in one State and the member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby State to which he or she commutes each day, then the member has two States of residence and may purchase a firearm in either the State where the duty station is located or the State where the home is maintained. An alien who is legally in the United States is considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in that State and has resided in that State continuously for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale of the firearm. See also Item 5, “Sales to Aliens in the United States,” in the General Information section of this publication.

[18 U.S.C. 921(b), 922(a) (3), and 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.11]

(B12) May a person (who is not an alien) who resides in one State and owns property in another State purchase a handgun in either State? [Back]

If a person maintains a home in 2 States and resides in both States for certain periods of the year, he or she may, during the period of time the person actually resides in a particular State, purchase a handgun in that State. However, simply owning property in another State does not qualify the person to purchase a handgun in that State.

[27 CFR 478.11]

Also, what about long guns? Since any resident of any state (barring state laws) can buy a long gun from an FFL in any state, then why can't a passport be used? I wonder about this one now that I think of it.