Open carry of non-firearm weapon in Baltimore City

[Biggie313]

Open carry of the knife is ok. the baton is not.

 

[ToneGrail]

Open carry of the knife is ok. the baton is not.

While there are cops who will charge someone for carrying a baton, it won't stick in court if challenged.

If they could arrest you for carrying a baton openly, then every security guard carrying one could be arrested. While security companies and police agencies make officers qualify with the baton before carrying it as a matter of policy, there is no law that mandates any training to carry one.

 

[SirMrManGuy]

Here is an idea for comething that no one has mentioned. Do you know someone who has a police scanner? If so, then you're halfway there. Go to your local electronics outlet and buy a digital voice recorder. Go to your friend's house some Friday or Saturday evening when the weather is good and record the Baltimore City police channel for about a couple of hours (those little recorders will hold up to 37 hours worth of recordings. Then, when you are walking from your car to the office, play the police calls a little louder than necessary. Let the junkies think that you are an undercover cop. They will avoid you like Democrats avoiding a tax cut. If any of them speak to you respond by asking them loudly if they want to become an "ear" for you. That will spell certain death for the junkie if it is overheard and one of the other junkies will rid the planet of them for the rest of us.

Even simpler if you have a droid or iphone, since both have police scanner apps.

 

[4MarDiv]

I've worked North Ave, Pennsylvania Ave, Lower Park Heights, Middle East, Edmonson Ave, Pigtown, etc for the past 6 years and stepped over junkies, brushed with dealers, and everyone else imaginable on a daily basis. What I've learned is that if you don't carry yourself like a victim you aren't treated like one. And if you're not part of their game out there, you're just background scenery that no one pays attention to.

My job takes me to some of these neighborhoods and some less than pleasant ones in DC as well and the above advice is exactly what I do and I have no probs. Only the law abiders worry about the law.. The scum bags don't...it's sad but true..

 

[victor57]

MagLite

Even the police carry these and it's perfectly legal. Remember the commercial
where one of these gets run over by a truck and still survives ? Between the
hardened aluminum case and the 6 D-cell batteries that's considerable mass
and works more effectively, if not better, than a club.

 

[rglrguy]

Perhaps take a combat pen/kubaton course from George at Modern Combative Systems?

http://www.youtube.com/user/mercop27?feature=mhum#p/u/27/Vjz7gbM9rPs

 

[Darkemp]

I've worked North Ave, Pennsylvania Ave, Lower Park Heights, Middle East, Edmonson Ave, Pigtown, etc for the past 6 years and stepped over junkies, brushed with dealers, and everyone else imaginable on a daily basis. What I've learned is that if you don't carry yourself like a victim you aren't treated like one. And if you're not part of their game out there, you're just background scenery that no one pays attention to.

I go back to what I said here before. Situational awareness is paramount in a high crime urban area. How you carry yourself determines your measure by observers as a potential target. If you want to carry a knife, then you need to know how to use it with proper training. Same with a kubaton or expandable baton. Otherwise it will be your weapon used as an advantage AGAINST you. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Blaster229]

Not a big fan of anything open carry. Why let someone get the one up on you. say someone bare hands you and you have a knife, you gonna kill them? If someone pulls a knife wanting your money, you gonna pull yours and have a knife fight? I'm not saying don't carry anything, blah blah blah, but you need to think how and under what circumstance you will use what weapon you carry.

 

[Ethan83]

Not a big fan of anything open carry. Why let someone get the one up on you. say someone bare hands you and you have a knife, you gonna kill them? If someone pulls a knife wanting your money, you gonna pull yours and have a knife fight? I'm not saying don't carry anything, blah blah blah, but you need to think how and under what circumstance you will use what weapon you carry.

The original question was specifically about open carry because MD law specifically prohibits the concealed carry of the weapons in question.

 

[For_The_People]

I go to school in baltimore and I used to carry a benchmade 1100 pen... as I moved out of the dorms and found that technically the university doesnt have a policy against knives so I carry one. If I go off campus I carry a cold steel gunsight 2 folder, I feel pretty safe with it.

The best way is not to look like a victim, walk with confidence, but that is easier for me to say since I weigh 250.

 

[rj1974]

please correct me if im wrong ,but in md do you not have the right to carry a loaded fire arm on private property if given permission by the owner of the property or current leasee or renter ??

 

[Blaster229]

The original question was specifically about open carry because MD law specifically prohibits the concealed carry of the weapons in question.

So because you can, that would make it a smart decision? Seems to me he is asking so that he will do it.

 

[Ethan83]

So because you can, that would make it a smart decision? Seems to me he is asking so that he will do it.

No, of course not, hence the original question about it. There are certain things that you are allowed to carry, but only openly, so the question was about the prudence of doing so. I respect those that are of the opinion that it's not good to let everybody know what you've got, but there's also the question of whether it's better to not have anything at all. We're not allowed to conceal a KaBar, so the only question left to ask is if it's better to open carry a KaBar or not carry one at all. I agree that concealing it would be ideal, but the state of MD has removed that option.

Oh, and I'm the OP. I still don't carry a fixed-blade knife nor a baton.

 

[Unit3960]

Ethan, since I work there, I will give you my opinion on this matter, but remember it's only my opinion. I have one just like everyone else. I think that the result of most of police encounters are determine by the attitude of person being stopped i.e. (abbrassive vs. passive). Now that being said, you being a law abiding citizen who works in this block for years and know who the police are in that area shouldn't have a problem and I'll explain. Most police who work a specific beat would know after years of seeing you that you work where you work. Regardless if you work there or are one of the methadone pacients for the time that you have been frequenting the area, you'd be considered a regular. So by now if you were to have a exposed knife, bat or espantoon of some sort, you'd ouf been approached and asked about it. Furthermore, I also believed that the officer would of given you advise as to conceal it. That being said, here is where the problem lies; the knife being exposed or concealed it is meant to be used in case of harm being inflicted on your person. Your assailant studying you as the police have, would bring a gun to your knife fight because he knows you are armed with same. I think we all know the outcome of that one. But lets say he doesnt have a gun and challenges you, you feel threatened, cut him a nice bit and being that he is unarmed perhaps, you get arrested. Now you will spent whatever time in jail, a astronomical amount of money obtaining legal counsel then time wasted in court just to prove your side. It sucks doesn't it. So although I am a strong believer that every law abiding citizen who wishes to conceal carry a firearm should have that right, I can't cahnge that because I am not running for election, nor will I ever be appointed to Police Chief or Commissioner and definately will never be Governor. So the less weapon of choice for someone who wants to protect him or herself I'd have to go with Black Bart....Pepper Spray. It is a Mother Phu#$%. Easy concealment and non-life threatening which would help your story convincing the police. No blood involve = less explaining. I'm just saying not endorsing, but just giving my opinion. Only we have to worry about laws. My theory; criminals have more rights than regular citizens. Criminals don't play by the rules but yet we are forced to do so and still fear being a victim. Hopefully I live to see the day that Maryland Law abiding citizens are afforded the right of being able to conceal carry if they chose to for protection. I'm not holding my breath so til then Ethan, go with the pepper spray.

 

[Ethan83]

Ethan, since I work there, I will give you my opinion on this matter, but remember it's only my opinion. I have one just like everyone else. I think that the result of most of police encounters are determine by the attitude of person being stopped i.e. (abbrassive vs. passive). Now that being said, you being a law abiding citizen who works in this block for years and know who the police are in that area shouldn't have a problem and I'll explain. Most police who work a specific beat would know after years of seeing you that you work where you work. Regardless if you work there or are one of the methadone pacients for the time that you have been frequenting the area, you'd be considered a regular. So by now if you were to have a exposed knife, bat or espantoon of some sort, you'd ouf been approached and asked about it. Furthermore, I also believed that the officer would of given you advise as to conceal it. That being said, here is where the problem lies; the knife being exposed or concealed it is meant to be used in case of harm being inflicted on your person. Your assailant studying you as the police have, would bring a gun to your knife fight because he knows you are armed with same. I think we all know the outcome of that one. But lets say he doesnt have a gun and challenges you, you feel threatened, cut him a nice bit and being that he is unarmed perhaps, you get arrested. Now you will spent whatever time in jail, a astronomical amount of money obtaining legal counsel then time wasted in court just to prove your side. It sucks doesn't it. So although I am a strong believer that every law abiding citizen who wishes to conceal carry a firearm should have that right, I can't cahnge that because I am not running for election, nor will I ever be appointed to Police Chief or Commissioner and definately will never be Governor. So the less weapon of choice for someone who wants to protect him or herself I'd have to go with Black Bart....Pepper Spray. It is a Mother Phu#$%. Easy concealment and non-life threatening which would help your story convincing the police. No blood involve = less explaining. I'm just saying not endorsing, but just giving my opinion. Only we have to worry about laws. My theory; criminals have more rights than regular citizens. Criminals don't play by the rules but yet we are forced to do so and still fear being a victim. Hopefully I live to see the day that Maryland Law abiding citizens are afforded the right of being able to conceal carry if they chose to for protection. I'm not holding my breath so til then Ethan, go with the pepper spray.

Good post and thanks for the advice. FWIW, since posting this a little while ago, I've been carrying a Kimber Pepper Blaster in the pocket, and feel like it's a good solution for a bunch of reasons, including the ones you cited.

 

[Unit3960]

Hopefully one day, you'll be able to carry a snubbed nosed .38 instead of your Kimber Pepper...but as I said, don't hold your breath. lol

 

[Bohlieve410]

@ the Op

- I lived in a shitty neighborhood in Bmore (Conkling and Pulaski), ALWAYS had Kershaw or ZT clipped to my belt. For "utility" purposes Never had a problem, even when encountering Bmore's Finest. For the most part I found BPD to be pretty lenient if they knew you weren't some trashy hoodlum. Most are pretty cool and can tell when you're a troublemaker or someone just minding their business. You should be fine. They know what the city is like!

Although concealed carry crossed my mind a lot when I had to go to school over in Mondawmin.

 

[honda53s]

I would look into moving out of the hood, rather then an open carry

 

[CallMeIshmael]

I think this knife is discontinued, but I know I can find it somewhere!!!

Check this knife out by Harley Davidson and dealt by Benchmade!

 

[edhallor]

Okay, I know this topic is something of a dead horse, but I'm curious about a unique aspect of it. As far as I understand, it's totally legal for me to carry a non-firearm weapon openly, as long as I don't intend to do anything illegal with it. I'm convinced I would win in court, but some things just aren't worth fighting in court.

Long story short, I work in Baltimore City, and the block where I work is pretty well known for being where the local junkies hang out and catch their rides. A month or two ago, the health clinic next door apparently started giving out methadone, or so I heard, and I certainly believe it based on the increase of sketchballs hanging around. If I were to start open-carrying either an ASP baton or a KaBar knife, what would be the likelihood of the cops harassing me for it? I've been working in the same spot for years now, and I recognize most of the local cops, and they may even recognize me, but I doubt that would go very far. I'm not necessarily the most clean-cut guy in the world, but I also look nothing like the low-life's I'm trying to keep away.

So, a reasonable precaution, or just asking for trouble from the BCPD? I tend to think it's just asking to be harassed, except that I'm vaguely familiar with that big court case where the cop/police department lost BIGTIME over arresting somebody for a non-existent knife law. Supposedly cops have become much more familiar with these kinds of non-firearm weapons laws since then, and aren't so gung-ho about harassing innocent citizens?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

REPLY,

I'm not sure about a Cop loosing Big Time for a non existent knife law? nor am I sure where you are getting your news? but here are the things that will get you in trouble in Baltimore. From your Post you would have violated:

CR 4-101(c)(2)
MISDEMEANOR
$1,000.00 - 3 YEARS
*1_5200* **DANGEROUS WEAPON-INT/INJURE**
...did openly wear and carry _____ (state weapon), a dangerous
weapon, with the intent and purpose of causing injury to
[____(name/others] in an unlawful manner.
Rev

After the word Carry would have been inserted: a KaBar knife and after the words Injury to, would have been inserted: Person or Persons Unknown.

It's not that I disagree with you about having a right to defend yourself, I do, that is why even as a Retired Police Officer I support the Right to Carry. What I am saying is under current Law be careful about all of the Cop F Up'ed Stories, most are just BS, that will at best land you in CBIF for a night at worst $1,000.00 and 3 YEARS in jail.

Please know the Law, if you don't, a good measure is, if you think you may be breaking the Law then don't do it.
Ever hear the saying Ignorance of the Law is no excuse, well now you know.

I love Police work and 99% of the Guys are people you can count on for a break if the situation allows , however in the scenario you play out in Baltimore I would say your chances of Arrest are about 100%.

Be Careful,
Ed



[/QUOTE]
ARTICLE 19
POLICE ORDINANCES


§ 59-22. Switch-blade knives.
(a) Possession or sale, etc., prohibited.
It shall be unlawful for any person to sell, carry, or possess any knife with an automatic spring or
other device for opening and/or closing the blade, commonly known as a switch-blade knife.
(b) Penalties.
Any person violating the provisions of this section, shall, upon conviction thereof, be fined not
more than $500 or be imprisoned for not more than 1 year, or both, in the discretion of the court.
(City Code, 1950, art. 24, §155; 1966, art. 19, §160; 1976/83, art. 19, §185.) (Ord. 44-057.)

COMMERIAL LAW ARTICLE
CARRYING OR WEARING WEAPON
NOTE: Included in deadly or dangerous weapons are a dirk knife, bowie knife, switchblade
knife, star knife, sandclub, metal knuckles, a razor and a nunchaku. Not included are penknives
without switchblades, or handguns.
NOTE: As used in this section, a "star knife" is a device used as a throwing weapon, consisting
of several sharp or pointed blades arrayed as radially disposed arms about a central disk.
As used in this section, a "nunchaku" is a device consisting of two pieces, wood, metal, plastic,
or other like substance connected by any chain, rope, leather or other flexible material not
exceeding 24 inches in length.
NOTE: Carrying or wearing chemical mace, pepper mace, or a tear gas device concealed is not
made illegal by this section if the defendant is an adult. Carrying such a device openly with
intent to injure is charged under CR 4-101. The appropriate choices are provided in the wording
below.
NOTE: The possession of pepper mace by a juvenile is a criminal charge under CR 4-101, but
does not carry automatic adult jurisdiction.
Rev. 10/01/08


CR 4-101(c)(1)
MISDEMEANOR
$1,000.00 - 3 YEARS
*1_5202* **DANGEROUS WEAPON-CONCEAL**
...did [wear and carry] _________ (state weapon), a dangerous
weapon, concealed [on/about] [his/her] person.
CR 4-101(c)(2)
MISDEMEANOR
$1,000.00 - 3 YEARS
*1_5200* **DANGEROUS WEAPON-INT/INJURE**
...did openly wear and carry _____ (state weapon), a dangerous
weapon, with the intent and purpose of causing injury to
[____(name/others] in an unlawful manner.
Rev

KNIVES – SWITCHBLADE
Sale, etc. Unlawful
CR 4-105(a)(1)(2)
MISDEMEANOR
$500.00 - 12 MONTHS
*1_5214* **KNIFE SALE ETC SWITCHBLADE**
...did [sell/barter/display/offer to sell/offer to barter] a [switch
blade knife/shooting knife].
NOTE: A switchblade knife is one which opens automatically
by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in
the handle.
A "shooting knife" is a device designed to propel a knife from a
metal sheath by means of a high-compression ejector spring.