Open carry

[Stoveman]

Nope. No law saying one SHALL not open carry. There is also nothing that says one cannot be a test case for a disturbing the peace call to the police if someone puts up a fuss by seeing your openly carried weapon either.

Soooooooo, who would really put their permit on the line just to try a point?

Legal and wise are not mutually inclusive. It's also legal in MD to marry your cousin but it is not necessarily wise.....

 

[Vile Shadow]

Neither site is considered authoritative. Maybe Gary will attest that he does the best he can with the information available.

The law makes no distinction as to manner of carry, so reading the actual statutes will help here. Neither is there a distinction made on the card itself.

You will, however, come across LEO of all colors and stripes in MD who firmly believe that CC is the law (or simply want to have them all concealed).

Lemme guess. If were to ask 10 different LEO's this exact same question, you get 10 different answers regarding the legality of OC'ing with a CCP. That about right?

Nope. No law saying one SHALL not open carry. There is also nothing that says one cannot be a test case for a disturbing the peace call to the police if someone puts up a fuss by seeing your openly carried weapon either.

Soooooooo, who would really put their permit on the line just to try a point?

Assuming for the moment that OC'ing with a CCP does NOT run afoul of any laws, how would that be "putting your permit on the line" if you committed no crime to begin with?

 

[Blaster229]

Lemme guess. If were to ask 10 different LEO's this exact same question, you get 10 different answers regarding the legality of OC'ing with a CCP. That about right?


Assuming for the moment that OC'ing with a CCP does NOT run afoul of any laws, how would that be "putting your permit on the line" if you committed no crime to begin with?

Disturbing the peace perhaps? Someone in public gets alarmed by seeing your pistol. You have then "disturbed the peace", but who knows. Again, why chance it? Unless you have gobs of cash and a good lawyer and time off work to defend yourself.
Local cops call the MSP if a permit carrier MAY carry openly and then they know your name at HQ and don't get your renewal.
I just threw 2 maybe ridiculous things out there but why couldn't they happen?

As sensitive as finally getting a permit, why in the hell would anyone risk it? All 2A bravado aside, the bottom line we live in MD and have to play by the rules extra careful. Be pissed off sure, but carry smart.

 

[redeemed.man]

Nope. No law saying one SHALL not open carry. There is also nothing that says one cannot be a test case for a disturbing the peace call to the police if someone puts up a fuss by seeing your openly carried weapon either.

Soooooooo, who would really put their permit on the line just to try a point?

Not me.

 

[Vile Shadow]

Disturbing the peace perhaps? Someone in public gets alarmed by seeing your pistol. You have then "disturbed the peace", but who knows.

You mean all it takes to be slapped with a "disturbing the peace" charge is for someone to get "alarmed"?

Hell, God only knows how far that could be stretched.

Again, why chance it? Unless you have gobs of cash and a good lawyer and time off work to defend yourself.
Local cops call the MSP if a permit carrier MAY carry openly and then they know your name at HQ and don't get your renewal.
I just threw 2 maybe ridiculous things out there but why couldn't they happen?

As sensitive as finally getting a permit, why in the hell would anyone risk it? All 2A bravado aside, the bottom line we live in MD and have to play by the rules extra careful. Be pissed off sure, but carry smart.

No argument there.

I carry in a holster when out of state, usually open. But the moment I put on a jacket it becomes concealed.

I don't believe in doing it to make any sort of statement. I just go on about my business like nobody cares.

 

[HeatSeeker]

Neither site is considered authoritative. Maybe Gary will attest that he does the best he can with the information available.

The law makes no distinction as to manner of carry, so reading the actual statutes will help here. Neither is there a distinction made on the card itself.

You will, however, come across LEO of all colors and stripes in MD who firmly believe that CC is the law (or simply want to have them all concealed).

I agree, but both sites are pretty reliable when it comes to state by state permit info.

I also agree that it is not stated anywhere that you cannot open carry, but I also would not jeopadize my permit by doing so. It is too hard to get a permit in MD for me to consider testing to see if I can get away with open carrying. Just not worth it, but for those of you that are willing to do it let us know how it goes.

 

[foxtrapper]

A may-issue state is a different animal than a shall-issue state, esp a shall-issue with unlisc'd open carry like VA. Yeah, if you have a MD carry lisc, open carry may not be prudent. However, has anyone had it revoked for the mere act of open carrying?

I find DE to be rather interesting. I had no idea there were so many open carry advocates and practitioners around as soon as you hop the state line going east on route 40 or I95. DELOC has MONTHLY meets, and most of them are in New Castle county, with a bulk of them in the Newark to Christiana area. It's like open carry is so commonplace, what are the odds that the son of the owner of neighboring property you just bought above Elkton happens to open carry all the time where he lives in DE ( same area as mentioned already), but isn't even active with DELOC? He happens to show up with his buddies to use the shooting range his dad and him made, and me and my parents happen to run into them due to my dad trying to figure out the property line on that side. Next thing you know the guy and I are talking about open carry.

Anyway, I have gotten to know some DELOC folks, went to some of the meets, and even had a fellow member shooting with me yesterday. And DE is still a may-issue CC state, despite a shall-issue style issuing at the present time. It could change at a whim with a wrong new governor or if more gun grabber legislators are elected in. But even with that, open carry would still remain an option.

 

[HeatSeeker]

If open carry without a permit was legal in Maryland, would you do it?

If I didn't have a permit and OC is the only way I could carry, then Yes.

I have OC'ed in PA before while eating breakfast at the Road Kill during deer season.

 

[smokey]

OC is just as important as CC and we should all be pushing for the rights together to be able to do both as we see fit. If you choose to CC, having good laws around OC can go a long way to preventing some stupid brandishing law from coming in to play if you reach for something or bend over. OC also normalizes guns as a part of society. People are mentioning test cases....yup....that's in our future here in md and will be painful, but necessary when infringement on our carry rights is eventually lifted.

In most all other parts of the country that reverse 2A right infringement, a dance followed between the people, the LEOs and the courts. LEOs would respond heavy-handed to citizens just exercising their rights, citizens go to court, court orders retraining of police and compensation for citizen. Through this process, the public also learns how to interact with police in a more productive manner.


The correct way to deal with the OP isn't to tell him to pull his head back into his shell, but to keep an eye and ear out for any person that has their rights violated as they OC on a valid permit. When that happens, we come together as a community to support the person in the court system and then get clarification and remove some infringement on our rights through litigation.

OC vs. CC brings out opinions on which one is the wisest choice from a tactical standpoint, but everyone should be pushing for the ability to freely choose which best works for them. Only having CC or only having OC, whether clearly spelled out in COMAR or exercised in "shoulds" of arbitrary practice is not an ideal situation. It sets up anyone who wishes to carry for more infringement and harassment by the state. So, you guys getting excited for another legislative session with some fresh meat to recruit to our side? Something beautiful to watch is that even though some of our opponents will undeniably win back their seats, they're having to call in a lot more favors and spend a lot more of their money than they thought in the process(how many times have you heard brochin's lame fake-brit green eggs and ham commercial recently?).

So, you guys ready to start cranking down the screws and increasing the pressure on these dick-tards in office again? Let's win the right to OC AND CC, then we can really have a good argument over if it tastes great or is less filling.

 

[Multifaceted]

If I didn't have a permit and OC is the only way I could carry, then Yes.

I have OC'ed in PA before while eating breakfast at the Road Kill during deer season.

In what short time I've been here, already I've seen three individuals open carry, in fact one was tonight. What's surprising is how normal it appears until only then I notice and think how normal it really is. The moment I realized the moment, I realized.

 

[Minuteman]

Slingblade posted: "Some call OC a tactical blunder. I kinda lean toward the side of if it's visible then you reduce the likelihood of having of ever having to use your gun at all, vs CC'ing and appearing on the surface to be as unarmed as anyone else."

I've never heard that to OC (Open Carry) is a tactical blunder, but I've been saying for years that to CC (Concealed Carry) is a tactical advantage.

The advantages of CC are:

- because its unseen, you are less likely to be targeted by badguys that might want to take it from you; or worse attack you first because you are the greatest threat to them.

- doesn't attract attention from ignorant people who might make a scene or 'get goofy' because they see you with a firearm

- some dumbasses will try to make a 'political statement' by attracting attention if they see you OC'ing

- cops and security folks will pay special attention to everything you do, and rightly so, because until they (all of us good guys, LEO or not) realize you are not doing something nefarious, you are a potential threat - it just works like that.

- you get to chose if and when you 'let the badgun know' you are carrying. You get to decide if you want to interject yourself and your gun into a situation. If you OC everyone knows, and you are automatically part of the calculous.

- weapon retention is much easier with CC vice OC



The biggest advantages of OC are:

- it's generally more comfortable, especially when engaged in vigorous activity - hiking, climbing, sports, exercise, etc.

- its generally quicker to draw from OC; the deeper you CC the slower your draw will be

- for an official, including the police, carrying a firearm can convey authority and generally 'keeps the peace', just by having responsible people with them - on them

- if a lot more people OC'ed, over time it would be more recognized and some of the negatives would be deminished

And before some NRA instructor PM's me to say, 'we try to avoid using the word "weapon", it stereotypes all firearms and owners'; I get that and thanks. But if you are fighting with someone to retain your firearm, at that moment, like it or not, it has become a weapon. Now whether you or your adversary are successful, and who ends up with the weapon will largely depend on your training, skill, strength and mind-set.

 

[CypherPunk]

And before some NRA instructor PM's me to say, 'we try to avoid using the word "weapon", it stereotypes all firearms and owners'; I get that and thanks. But if you are fighting with someone to retain your firearm, at that moment, like it or not, it has become a weapon. Now whether you or your adversary are successful, and who ends up with the weapon will largely depend on your training, skill, strength and mind-set.

PM sent anyway.

 

[Stoveman]

Slingblade posted: "Some call OC a tactical blunder. I kinda lean toward the side of if it's visible then you reduce the likelihood of having of ever having to use your gun at all, vs CC'ing and appearing on the surface to be as unarmed as anyone else."

I've never heard that to OC (Open Carry) is a tactical blunder, but I've been saying for years that to CC (Concealed Carry) is a tactical advantage.

The advantages of CC are:

- because its unseen, you are less likely to be targeted by badguys that might want to take it from you; or worse attack you first because you are the greatest threat to them.

- doesn't attract attention from ignorant people who might make a scene or 'get goofy' because they see you with a firearm

- some dumbasses will try to make a 'political statement' by attracting attention if they see you OC'ing

- cops and security folks will pay special attention to everything you do, and rightly so, because until they (all of us good guys, LEO or not) realize you are not doing something nefarious, you are a potential threat - it just works like that.

- you get to chose if and when you 'let the badgun know' you are carrying. You get to decide if you want to interject yourself and your gun into a situation. If you OC everyone knows, and you are automatically part of the calculous.

- weapon retention is much easier with CC vice OC



The biggest advantages of OC are:

- it's generally more comfortable, especially when engaged in vigorous activity - hiking, climbing, sports, exercise, etc.

- its generally quicker to draw from OC; the deeper you CC the slower your draw will be

- for an official, including the police, carrying a firearm can convey authority and generally 'keeps the peace', just by having responsible people with them - on them

- if a lot more people OC'ed, over time it would be more recognized and some of the negatives would be deminished

I generally agree with all of this except the bolded portion above. Until you have done it a lot you will be surprised at how people don't notice.


I've heard over and over that if you OC you will be shot first. What if I'm seated in a restaurant and some nutbag drives his pick up through the window (ala Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen, TX style) and starts shooting. Is he going for me first because he can see my firearm on my waist through the table?

Perhaps you are standing in line at the local gas and guzzle and an armed robber comes in from the left door and you are carrying on you RH side. Again, you are not automatically in the calculous.

 

[DC-W]

I'm for all forms of responsible carry Carry doesn't mean a damn thing without good situational awareness.

 

[teratos]

OC is far more comfortable.

 

[dblas]

We, as a community should be pushing for carry, period. OC, CC, it shouldn't matter what "your" preference is, but we should be standing shoulder to shoulder pushing for it. I don't care if the guy next to me doesn't like my style of carry so long as we are both working for the same result.

It is way past time that the 2A community stop berating each other for whatever reason that we do not agree with, CC vs OC, hunting vs target, rifle vs handgun, etc.

Until the this happens, we will always be playing catch up.

Get over it, and at a minimum start supporting your fellow 2A brothers and sisters, even if what they are doing is not "your cup of tea."

 

[swinokur]

amen brother

 

[rambling_one]

We, as a community should be pushing for carry, period. OC, CC, it shouldn't matter what "your" preference is, but we should be standing shoulder to shoulder pushing for it. I don't care if the guy next to me doesn't like my style of carry so long as we are both working for the same result.

It is way past time that the 2A community stop berating each other for whatever reason that we do not agree with, CC vs OC, hunting vs target, rifle vs handgun, etc.

Until the this happens, we will always be playing catch up.

Get over it, and at a minimum start supporting your fellow 2A brothers and sisters, even if what they are doing is not "your cup of tea."

THIS!

[I know caps is screaming, but there's too many who don't hear otherwise]

 

[Blaster229]

Ok. Who here on the forum with a permit wants to start the OC movement asap and get the ball rolling?? Hip hip hoorah!

 

[teratos]

Ok. Who here on the forum with a permit wants to start the OC movement asap and get the ball rolling?? Hip hip hoorah!

Nope.