PA to MD lower transfer

[magnumpi]

I have a family member (PA resident) who wants gift my son (20 yr old MD resident) a complete AR lower. This lower was purchased by the family member as a complete rifle years ago and the upper has been sold. Can he legally transfer the lower at a MD FFL?
Thanks

 

[Michigander08]

I have a family member (PA resident) who wants gift my son (20 yr old MD resident) a complete AR lower. This lower was purchased by the family member as a complete rifle years ago and the upper has been sold. Can he legally transfer the lower at a MD FFL?
Thanks

I think so.

 

[Biggfoot44]

No .

The catch is the 20yo part . 18yo is specifically for Rifles and Shotguns . Other things ( like recievers , pistol grip only shotgun- like devices, etc .) remain 21yo .

 

[rseymorejr]

No .

The catch is the 20yo part . 18yo is specifically for Rifles and Shotguns . Other things ( like recievers , pistol grip only shotgun- like devices, etc .) remain 21yo .

How about if he bought an upper to put on it before they transfered it? That'd work, wouldn't it?

 

[lazarus]

How about if he bought an upper to put on it before they transferred it? That'd work, wouldn't it?

Yes, if it is a complete firearm, then it is a long gun and not regulated.

But at 20, no go for a lower in Maryland.

It might have been a complete rifle at one point, but MDSP consider a lower only as regulated not just because it could be built in to a pistol (if it was never built in to a rifle first), but also because you could (illegally) assemble it in to a banned configuration. So they have tighter controls on receivers.

More stupid stuff, but it is what it is. Don't think you'd find an FFL willing to transfer just a lower only.

 

[magnumpi]

Yes, if it is a complete firearm, then it is a long gun and not regulated.

But at 20, no go for a lower in Maryland.

It might have been a complete rifle at one point, but MDSP consider a lower only as regulated not just because it could be built in to a pistol (if it was never built in to a rifle first), but also because you could (illegally) assemble it in to a banned configuration. So they have tighter controls on receivers.

More stupid stuff, but it is what it is. Don't think you'd find an FFL willing to transfer just a lower only.

Thanks for the replies guys. So if a MD compliant upper is put on it first, it would be legal to transfer as a rifle correct? Other option would be wait til he is 21 (only a couple months) and then he could transfer just the lower?

 

[jcutonilli]

No .

The catch is the 20yo part . 18yo is specifically for Rifles and Shotguns . Other things ( like recievers , pistol grip only shotgun- like devices, etc .) remain 21yo .

It is not a receiver, it is a complete lower. It should have a buttstock so it should still be considered a rifle.

 

[jcutonilli]

Thanks for the replies guys. So if a MD compliant upper is put on it first, it would be legal to transfer as a rifle correct? Other option would be wait til he is 21 (only a couple months) and then he could transfer just the lower?

We can only give general advice. The transaction is ultimately up to the FFL, which may interpret the regulations differently.

Putting a MD compliant upper on would minimize the potential for an FFL to reject the transfer.

Since it appears to have a buttstock, you may find that an FFL will allow the transfer.

Figuring out what a MD compliant upper is may also be dependent on the FFL.

Talk to one or more FFLs to figure out what they are willing to do.

 

[magnumpi]

Thanks for the info guys. I will definitely check with the FFL to see what they will or will not transfer.

 

[Biggfoot44]

No, a complete lower is still a reciever , whether or not a buttstock is attached . To meet the the Federal or State definition of Rifle, it must have both a barrel And a buttstock .

 

[Pinecone]

BORROW an upper.

Assemble the rifle, transfer. Give the upper back.

 

[atblis]

It is not a receiver, it is a complete lower. It should have a buttstock so it should still be considered a rifle.

Not true. It's still an "other".

 

[jcutonilli]

No, a complete lower is still a reciever , whether or not a buttstock is attached . To meet the the Federal or State definition of Rifle, it must have both a barrel And a buttstock .

per 18 USC 921(7)
The term “rifle” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of an explosive to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.

MD Criminal Law 4-201 (e)
Rifle. -- "Rifle" means a weapon that is: **
(1) designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder; and **
(2) designed or redesigned, and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.

Once a receiver has a mechanism to fire from the shoulder and has some design for a rifled barrel, it is legally a rifle per the federal and state laws. There is no real requirement for it to actually have a barrel. It simply needs to be designed to have one, which a lower receiver is designed to do. The definitions of a rifle are all about intent.

The federal or state may have made up some requirement that says otherwise, but that does not change the law. Ultimately it is up to the FFL to determine what they are willing to accept.

 

[Smokescreen]

Like everyone said, it depends on the FFL.

I've been to some that will tell you that its not a rifle without an attached upper or unless you can prove that the complete rifle was sold by the manufacture in the same configuration you are trying to transfer, it has to be done as a receiver.

On the other side of the coin, I've seen some that transfer a lower with a buttstock or a assembled "HBAR" complete rifle. It all comes down to how the law is interpreted.

Its their license and your money. If you don't like their answer, go somewhere else. If can be a little uncomfortable (especially if you have a long relationship with a dealer) but at the end of the day, it is what it is.

 

[rbird7282]

BORROW an upper.

Assemble the rifle, transfer. Give the upper back.

That would be illegal because the recipient is under 21. It needs to be a rifle


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[Biggfoot44]

Oh ? It would indeed BE a rifle at the time of transfer , and hence transfer AS a rifle . ( For simplicity's sake assuming it was in rifle form before arriving at the FFL in question . To change from an Other to a Rifle at the FFL premises could raise issues about Manufacturing and Excise taxes .)

********************

Even if place the maximum possible weight on the presence of buttstock to a receiver , it still isn't a Rifle w/o a rifled barell to fite fixed ammunition of single projectile also .

An AR reciever ( w/ buttstock ) could equally become a shotgun , muzzleloader , or line throwing device .

 

[135sohc]

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar15-complete-classic-stealth-lower.html

Local FFL here in Somd who sell's these all day long as a 'long gun'. No smoke and mirrors, no double secret handshakes or wink wink transactions. Well known, respect and straight shooting (no pun intended) individual. He does not break the law but he sure as hell does not contribute to the infringements any more than absolutely spelled out in black and white. If the ATF or Stetson storm troopers were going to show up and put a stop to this I get the suspicion it would have been done years ago now.

It goes on the 4473 as a long gun and it is understood by all parties present that you are not making it into anything else. Period.

 

[rbird7282]

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar15-complete-classic-stealth-lower.html



Local FFL here in Somd who sell's these all day long as a 'long gun'. No smoke and mirrors, no double secret handshakes or wink wink transactions. Well known, respect and straight shooting (no pun intended) individual. He does not break the law but he sure as hell does not contribute to the infringements any more than absolutely spelled out in black and white. If the ATF or Stetson storm troopers were going to show up and put a stop to this I get the suspicion it would have been done years ago now.



It goes on the 4473 as a long gun and it is understood by all parties present that you are not making it into anything else. Period.

.

 

[jcutonilli]

Oh ? It would indeed BE a rifle at the time of transfer , and hence transfer AS a rifle . ( For simplicity's sake assuming it was in rifle form before arriving at the FFL in question . To change from an Other to a Rifle at the FFL premises could raise issues about Manufacturing and Excise taxes .)

********************

Even if place the maximum possible weight on the presence of buttstock to a receiver , it still isn't a Rifle w/o a rifled barell to fite fixed ammunition of single projectile also .

An AR reciever ( w/ buttstock ) could equally become a shotgun , muzzleloader , or line throwing device .

Excise taxes are paid by the manufacturer. The FFL would not manufacture a firearm because it is already created. The taxes would already be paid.

You need to read and understand the definitions of what a rifle and shotgun are. Both require an intent to shoulder the firearm. The presence of a buttstock demonstrates this. Neither require the presence of a barrel, they only require that it be designed for that purpose.

If it is going to have a rifled barrel, transfer it as a rifle otherwise transfer it as a shotgun. I am not aware of any requirement that prohibits changing between a rifle and shotgun.

 

[jcutonilli]

Yeah, that's illegal.

What law is being broken?