Pics after Resizing

[Melnic]

OK, New to reloading.
Lee Challenger Press.
Lee 3 die set for 7.62x54r

I used the decapping/sizing die first.
Lubed inside neck and out.

I'm wondering if this looks right and if I'm inserting the shell in far enough to the die. My first attempts at inserting the shell it was hard to press in and I adjusted the arm on the press. I also pulled the resizing/decapping pin out and cleaned out the die. I found some balls of grit or something in there.
When I run the shell into the die, I get ALOT of resistance about 1mm before the die touches the shell holder. Should the die touch the shell holder or how do I tell I'm in enough? I'm following the Lee instructions to insert the die till it hits the shell holder (just touching), then drop the ram and turn in the die 1/4 more turn.
Here are pics

thx

 

[theBIGone2087]

You might be over-sizing the cartridge. The recapping pin should only protrude the bottom of the die around 1/4", you will get a little resistance going in as the recapping ball goes I to the case mouth and a lot more when you remove it. Clean and degrease the inside of the die and you should be good.

 

[Mooseman]

I am fairly new to reloading as well, but it sounds like you are doing it right to me. More experienced folks should be along soon to help you.

 

[anil]

A few questions:
1. Did you measure the cases and trim them to spec?
2. did you adjust the dies, per instruction manual?

a full length resizer should touch the shell holder; you will always get that tiny bit of the base of the shell, near the rim, that is not sized, because it is in the holder, but the die itself should touch.

You may be feeling the shoulder of the cart being bumped ... which could be good (pushing it back into spec) or bad (incorrectly adjusted).

may need to look closely side-by-side with loaded 54r to compare. Might need to break out micrometer and check start and end of shoulders in comparison.

 

[Melnic]

I don't have a case trimmer (yet) but these cases measure all within spec now. (I'll measure the fired untouched ones tonight).

I inserted the die per Lee instructions. I did not see anything on the recapping pin adjustment but will check again. I also have the Lee manual.
I measured the diameters of a PPU round and the case was within .001 of the PPU case but did not measure the shoulder start/end.

The Inner Diameter of the mouth .304 on all 4 shells. I was expecting it to be larger. The Expander pin maxes out to .307

 

[byf43]

Just as a suggestion -

When you first start threading the die into the press, have a cartridge case in the shellholder and raise the ram to help center the die over the case.

As you thread down the die, lower the ram, keeping the die centered over the case.

I might have missed this - you are lubing the cases, aren't you?????
Tip: Don't let a lot of lube get on the shoulder. This can/will cause some pretty ugly dents in the shoulder.

Also, using an unfired cartridge, measure where the case neck meets the shoulder, to the bottom of the case rim.
Then, measure one of your sized cases.
Are you pushing the shoulder back too far??????
Case length MAY not have anthing to do with correct settings.
The heavy resistance you are noticing MAY be from cranking the die down too far.

Again. . . . this is a POSSIBILITY, not a certainty.

For RCBS dies, I adjust the die down, 'til it's touching the shellholder, then give about 1/8 turn more, just so that the ram will 'cam over'.

 

[Jaybeez]

x54 is a big case. what press are you using? its not going to be easy on a small press or a lee turret.

many good presses like rcbs have a "over center" action. giving a loud click when pressing the handle after making contact with the shell holder. this gives more leverage to size cases more easily.

the 1/4 turn setup directions is the idiot proof method of full length sizing. if you use a case gauge, you may fund that you inly need a 16th-1/8th of a turn to get a good sizing, although I'm not sure if x54 surplus rifle chambers will meet saami specs.

if you are reloading brass that you fired out of your gun, you may be able to neck size only, which takes less effort and prolongs brass life.

 

[anil]

Even if you are bumping the shoulder you shouldn't be getting massive resistance. Might feel it, but it shouldn't be much.

Also, I was tired when I posted last time, trimming wouldn't matter here... Do that after sizing.

With no case in the press, just the shell holder, you don't get this resistance?

 

[Melnic]

With no case in the press, just the shell holder, you don't get this resistance?

It will go all the way up and touch the die.

1) Is that ridge at the mouth look ok?
2) Should the ID of the opening match the expander, or will it squeeze closed some like mine did?
Expander pin is .307 and after running it through, it is down to about .304.

Lee manual mentioned it should be .001 smaller than the bullet. I have .308 , .310 and .311 bullets to use
I also have the larger expander someone said to use with the Lee Die.

Jaybeez, I also have the Lee reloader kit which does not use a press and will neck size only. I thought about using that first. I seated a bullet w/o powder or primer in it using that reloader kit and the bullets sure did not seem tight.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Alas , it's hard to communicate *feel* with a keyboard. It sounds like you are reasonably close in default generic die adjustment. Yes a neck I'd of .304 is as intended, you want case neck tension on the loaded round to hole the bullet in place, and provide consistant powder ignition.

In a way 7.62x54R can be tricky in that there is such a wide variety of bore sizes , , throats , and chambers due to both manufacturing differences and up to 120yrs of use. The failsafe , make sure it goes bang no matter what is due to the ctg headspacing on the rim. Even if the shoulder is set back "too far" , it will still fire. As you gain more experience , and IF you are loading those particular cases to be use in that specific rifle , you can experement ( why ways we won't mention yet to not confuse matters ) to give best accuraccy , and longer case life in that particular rifle.

Added a cpl min later :

Different Die mfgs for 7.62x54 (and x39) at various era have included expander for either .308 or .311-13 bullets. In earlier eras .311-13 bullets were not common, and .308 bullets were often used. the larger expander would result in too loose of neck fit. I recall in some editions of LEE manuals of seeing at least at one time LEE provided the smaller expander as default. If this is an issue call customer service , and they can provide the other for either free , or a cpl dollars.

The same situation of millitary rifles for rimmed ctgs having chamber shoulder dimentions for rimmed ctgs for battlefield reliability was common, and in this country long been seen with .303 Brit, a ctg of similar size, power, and age.

 

[dj_in_md]

Your cases look normal. Default setup for resizing is to touch shell holder to die then turn die in 1/4 turn more. Depending on the press and the size of cartridge will be what determines the amount of effort to resize. Have you slugged your barrel? ---WARNING--- Don't load different size bullets unless you know the bore size.

 

[dist1646]

You state that you lubed the inside and outside of the neck. Lube the outside of the case, not just the neck and a little on the inside of the neck. Should be easier to size then. Just remember that a little lube lube will do the job, too much and you will get dimples in the shoulder of the case.

 

[Melnic]

Thx for input so far.
I lubed the entire outside of the case (Unique Lube in a small tub) using Qtip, then the inside of neck, then I use my finger to rub it / spread around entire case and outside of neck.

Yes, I slugged all my Mosins. I'm doing this primarily for my sniper but all 3 of them slugged to .312
It came with a .308 sizer/decapper and I also purchased the Brit/.311 expander for it which I have not yet used. I was planning on starting with .308 for my learning experience to get things started.

 

[8milimeter]

A lot of Mosin's have huge chambers.
My 91/30 chamber is so big the case buckles when I try to full length size.
I have to use a lee loader first to get the case small enough not to bulge in the sizing die.
That is most likely why you are getting so much resistance near the end of the case.
JMHO

 

[Melnic]

A lot of Mosin's have huge chambers.
My 91/30 chamber is so big the case buckles when I try to full length size.
I have to use a lee loader first to get the case small enough not to bulge in the sizing die.
That is most likely why you are getting so much resistance near the end of the case.
JMHO

So you are suggesting I use the neck sizer that comes with the Lee Loader Kit first?
I have enough brass to try this as well as some if not most of the other suggestions to figure things out.

I have a Brit .303 die set and some spent Brit Brass I can see if the same thing is going on with that and if it's just me learning this stuff.

Q) Is it reasonable to seat some bullets in sized yet unprimered/unloaded cases to verify my technique?

 

[FlatsFlite]

So you are suggesting I use the neck sizer that comes with the Lee Loader Kit first?

I'll suggest that if you are using a single shot rifle, I would use a universal decapper and neck size only if it's all your fired brass.

Back to your original issue, seat a bullet (no primer or powder) to spec and then see if it chambers as it should.

 

[Franklin]

what lube are you using. looks like you are down to the shell holder good enough.

 

[j8064]

The Lee 7.62x54R FL sizing dies are a notoriously tight fit at the case web. Honing and polishing the mouth of the die up to 3/8" in will minimize or eliminate the issue. For proper neck and shoulder sizing the die should touch the press ram plus 1/4 to 1/2 turn.

 

[Melnic]

ok, things are looking up.
OK, I believe I was using too much lube and too much on the neck.
I also had the arm hitting the work bench and it was not moving all the way up.
I'm now touching the die to the case holder like I should.
I also seem to not need to lube the inside of the cases it seems to expand well.
I resized about 8 rounds then moved on to try seating.
After making a few mistakes in reading the method of setting up the seating die I was able to seat 2 different bullets (I never saw a video on doing this properly yet, maybe I should make one).
I have 2 bullets. A pulled surplus .310 and a remmington .308 Core Lokt. Both are 150g and the remmington is shorter. In order to get the Min OAL from the manual, the .308 CoreLokt bullet neaded to be seated well below the crimping groove. Shown, its at the Min OAL for the Varget Powder I selected. The pulled .310 surplus was just fine and was just below the max OAL as shown.

The Lee kit allows you to turn the die to crimp when seating. I elected to not crimp yet till I knew where to seat the bullet. It comes with an additional "factory crimper" which I'm not so sure why since the seater can be set to crimp.

Once I get some feedback, I think I'll be ready to prime and powder. Right now, I am thinking I'll go with the pulled .310 bullets.

 

[Melnic]

OK, I went with the .310 surplus bulled bullet. I started with minimum load of Varget and did 5 rounds. All went off without a hitch in my unscoped Mosin.

BTW, the shoulder distance was within .001 of the fresh PPU. My shell length is within spec but close enough that I need to get me a case trimmer soon.

I'm going to keep going with the .310 bullets for now. and set the seating die to crimp. (and post some more questions for the gurus).

I'm going to think about honing the entrance to the die as suggested. I can see posts on other forums verifying what J8064 is saying.

Thx