Polymer coated ammo and bore fouling

[gremlin42]

This seems like the best place to ask about this - Today I went to Gilbert in Rockville, where I have to buy my ammo there and 9mm is in short supply so you take what they have. Today they gave me a bag of Amalgamated Cartridge (remanufactured in Hanover) subsonic 147-grain. I'm shooting a pretty new S&W M&P 2.0 with a 4" barrel which I've put about 400-450 rounds through so far. I'm diligent and borderline ocd about cleaning after shooting, so about an hour ago I go through my usual routine. I've never seen so much crap on a bore, not much powder but there was a thick layer of residue from the bullet coating. I'd also never shot coated rounds before but my understanding was that it's supposed to leave your barrel pretty clean. I use Hoppe's #9 foaming spray which I let sit for a couple minutes before running a bore snake through it. Up until now I've only had to pull the thing through once, but today I must have pulled it through at least 15 times and eventually I ran the brush section back and forth several times bc I couldn't remove the gunk from the last inch at the muzzle end. I got it about as clean as I could before I said screw it, assuming the next time i shoot normal ammo it'll strip that crap out.

So my questions: is this normal? Do I need to field strip it again and get back at it until it's the usual mirror shine end to end? Is this just garbage ammo? I might need to start going out of county so I can use my own stockpile if they're just gonna sell me ammo that ruins my new pistol.

 

[outrider58]

Cleaning your bore til it shines like a new penny will only wear your bore out faster. Andrew at Amalgamated double bakes and then sizes all his PC bullets. I'm not sure what you were pulling out of your barrel. What color was it? Was it particulate?

 

[gremlin42]

The bullets had the red coating but the residue looking in the end of the bore looked whitish like lead fouling. Looked like a spray of lead dust coming out when the brush part of the snake would come through, hard to tell color with that Hoppe's snake, I haven't used patches on this thing. I only shot 50 rounds and before I started cleaning it looked terrible.

I certainly welcome expert advice on what constitutes appropriate bore cleaning - like I said, up until today all I did was give it a couple shots of spray, let it sit for a minute, then one pull of the bore snake and it looked great. But I've never shot a coated round in my life before today.

 

[gremlin42]

I'd assumed I was seeing fouling from the coating, then figured it must be lead, now I'm really not sure.

 

[MifflinKid]

I have only used HiTek coated bullets from Missouri Cast Bullets and Bayou Bullets. And have used them almost exclusively in the last five or six years. I have never had fouling as you described.

Usually I use a brush in the barrel for 10 to 15 strokes followed by spraying diluted Ballistol down the barrel. (I use an olive oil sprayer from Pampered Chef). I let the Ballistol solution sit in the barrel while I clean and lubricate the rest of the gun. Then I run patches through the barrel until it is dry. That's it -- clean barrel.

 

[Melnic]

Are they using HiTek supercoat?
My personal experience is that it can be applied incorrectly. How do I know? cause mine did not come out as good as the Bayou bullets did.
I have a glock 34 clone barrel that has visible tool marks. Not the pure smooth glock quality. When I shoot my peronally coated hitek coated bullets through it, it will lead within 20 rounds.
Shoot those same Hi Tek coated bullets from my glock and its fine (but still seems to fail cause they are inaccurate). Shot Bayou HiTek coated through it and its fine. So I know its my process that is the problem. I switched to Powder Coated and no more problems for now. I'd like to get the kinks out of my HITek process but like I said, it can be picky. Reading on the web, I'm not the only one with this problem. Some people have solved the HiTek by changing the way they clean the cast bullets but I'm not ready to go through all that right now.

If you use a Chore Boy or Frontier cleaning stuff pulled into strands onto a brush, it will pull all the lead out.

If you can scrape off the coating with your fingernail, its not coated good

 

[babalou]

TomKat

Cleaning your bore til it shines like a new penny will only wear your bore out faster. Andrew at Amalgamated double bakes and then sizes all his PC bullets. I'm not sure what you were pulling out of your barrel. What color was it? Was it particulate?

Formally of TomKat. Have lots of his sub and super 300 coated stuff

 

[omegared24]

Cleaning your bore til it shines like a new penny will only wear your bore out faster. Andrew at Amalgamated double bakes and then sizes all his PC bullets. I'm not sure what you were pulling out of your barrel. What color was it? Was it particulate?

This is correct.

I wouldn't worry about cleaning it until you have accuracy issues. Even then I'd use cleaners rather than scrub. You are going to kill that barrel.

If they left a residue that easily I'd be willing to bet it wouldn't take many rounds of decent ammunition downrange to clear it pretty quickly. Typical post range regimen for me is just a quick wipe down with a rag that has some Barricade on it.

 

[ironhead7544]

To remove possible leading, get some Chore Boy all copper scouring pads. Wrap some material from the pads around a bore brush for a very tight fit in the barrel.

This will also remove plastic from a shotgun barrel.

Dont know what to say about the fouling. You might have a rough bore. Fire lapping may help. Keep an eye on it.

Start handloading. There are a lot of components out there that will work in a 9mm.

 

[outrider58]

To remove possible leading, get some Chore Boy all copper scouring pads. Wrap some material from the pads around a bore brush for a very tight fit in the barrel.

This will also remove plastic from a shotgun barrel.

Dont know what to say about the fouling. You might have a rough bore. Fire lapping may help. Keep an eye on it.

Start handloading. There are a lot of components out there that will work in a 9mm.

And do not use copper solvent if going this route.

 

[gremlin42]

This is correct.
If they left a residue that easily I'd be willing to bet it wouldn't take many rounds of decent ammunition downrange to clear it pretty quickly.

I’ll probably hit a normal range where I can use my own ammo in the next week or two. There are a couple small streaks left that I imagine the usual fmj will knock out. There was what looks like some mild copper streaking of the lands already but from what I can tell it’s normal for m&p barrels.

 

[gremlin42]

btw after more reading it seems that the manufacturing process for m&ps in recent years does leave a slightly rough bore, but s&w insists it will not affect accuracy and that’s good enough for me. Think I’m gonna insist on jacketed ammo if they try to give me this stuff at gilbert again though.

 

[Melnic]

btw after more reading it seems that the manufacturing process for m&ps in recent years does leave a slightly rough bore, but s&w insists it will not affect accuracy and that’s good enough for me. Think I’m gonna insist on jacketed ammo if they try to give me this stuff at gilbert again though.

innocently, the tool marks in my g34 clone were EASILY noticeable. If you have the streaks/lines in yours, jacketed is definitely important.

Good luck

 

[omegared24]

I’ll probably hit a normal range where I can use my own ammo in the next week or two. There are a couple small streaks left that I imagine the usual fmj will knock out. There was what looks like some mild copper streaking of the lands already but from what I can tell it’s normal for m&p barrels.

I wouldn't worry about it. The barrel will tell you everything you need to know.

 

[John from MD]

The bullets had the red coating but the residue looking in the end of the bore looked whitish like lead fouling. Looked like a spray of lead dust coming out when the brush part of the snake would come through, hard to tell color with that Hoppe's snake, I haven't used patches on this thing. I only shot 50 rounds and before I started cleaning it looked terrible.

I certainly welcome expert advice on what constitutes appropriate bore cleaning - like I said, up until today all I did was give it a couple shots of spray, let it sit for a minute, then one pull of the bore snake and it looked great. But I've never shot a coated round in my life before today.

It's a stain and doesn't build up. Trust me, 10,000 or more PC bullets of all calibers sent down range. No issues. It is a wast of time to scrub your bore as it doesn't need it.

 

[GuitarmanNick]

One of my P80 barrels has a few very noticeable tool marks in the grooves but shoots great. The muzzle, chamber and lands look good, just some roughness in the grooves. It isn't meant to be a target tool, anyway.
Likely you are getting some lead fouling. Noticed a little from the cast ammo I have shot in recent months in most of the tools in which they were used. Much dirtier than when using jacketed ammo.

 

[outrider58]

It's a stain and doesn't build up. Trust me, 10,000 or more PC bullets of all calibers sent down range. No issues. It is a wast of time to scrub your bore as it doesn't need it.

Scrub your barrel (on any gun) and you start back at the beginning. Once you have a gun shooting where you want it, especially an hd/sd gun, leave it be. You'll know exactly where it will hit when you need it.

 

[gremlin42]

Scrub your barrel (on any gun) and you start back at the beginning. Once you have a gun shooting where you want it, especially an hd/sd gun, leave it be. You'll know exactly where it will hit when you need it.

Does a single pull of a bore snake count as scrubbing or are you talking about really going at it with a brush? The Hoppe's bore snake has two brushes an inch or two apart. Even when I put a couple hundred rounds of red army through it over a weekend training outside I just did one pass with the snake.

 

[outrider58]

Does a single pull of a bore snake count as scrubbing or are you talking about really going at it with a brush? The Hoppe's bore snake has two brushes an inch or two apart. Even when I put a couple hundred rounds of red army through it over a weekend training outside I just did one pass with the snake.

I would push a lightly oiled patch through the bore, only if it had a lot of particulate matter in there, and only once. We hunters(and other shooters), like to keep a "dirty" bore where we left it.
Shooting a scrubbed clean bore is almost like pulling a brand new rifle out of the box and expecting it to hit dead center.

You should always keep a fouled barrel on any gun you want be able to pick up and hit with.

 

[gremlin42]

You should always keep a fouled barrel on any gun you want be able to pick up and hit with.

Well I definitely want that, so point taken.