Prepped Ham Scenario

[gruntz03]

Your daughter travels all over New England for internships. She has in her GHB HT”A” along with Antennae “B”, both packed away in a EMP proof box. On her way home, an EMP hits, disabling her vehicle. She abandons her vehicle to hide in the forest and wait for extraction. You hop in your trusty 68 Chevy and go to rescue her. You have a radio”C” with antenna “D”

What would your choices for A-D be to establish contact at the longest range?

 

[TheBert]

Where are you going to refill your gas tank?

 

[wrc]

What the heck is a GHB handheld transceiver? Is this some ham mumbo jumbo?

 

[dblas]

If she has an HT, even the best one and not a POS Baofeng, with a decent antenna, your range to her without a repeater (assuming all repeaters are off the air), would be about 10 - 15 miles max, depending on terain.
As for what I have in my vehicle, it's what I currently have, a Motorola XTL5000 x 3, one for VHF (110W), one for UHF (110W), one for 900 MHz (50W), all single coaxed to respective gain antennas. All running P25 and encryption). She will hear me before I hear her, and all anyone else will hear is static.

 

[6-Pack]

Does daughter know how to operate radio A and antenna B? Is she carrying a firearm for safety whilst retreating into the woods for extraction?

If it were me, and I do have this in a solar-powered backpack, ready to go, I'd go with a Yaesu FT-817ND or 818ND (I have the FT-817ND) and an ATAS-25 or G5RV antenna. No, it won't light the bands on fire, but it will get some distance with HF. I also have PowerPoles installed on the battery pack, 3D printed some PowerPole distribution boxes, and I can power my radio and tuner with the solar panel on the backpack (I took out the battery holder and installed a 12V to 6V converter so I can run it off my solar backpack). The backpack is a Voltaic backpack with battery (https://voltaicsystems.com/) - keep an eye out on Prime Day.

That being said, are you and you daughter licensed hams? I know there's an element that believes "in an emergency licenses won't be relevant" but there's a lot more to just hooking up an antenna to a radio and talking. You need to know band conditions (and post-EMP conditions will likely be very crowded with every other prepper-ham communicating). You need to have a frequency where you'll meet (preferably one for each band). You need an antenna tuner and know how to use it (even if it's automatic). You need feedline to connect your antenna to your radio.

That being said, I have a Yaesu FT-857D in my vehicle and use it on a near daily basis. I got a Baofeng radio for my wife (who also has her ham radio license) and put it in her glovebox, along with an instruction card I wrote for her on how to use the radio. I preprogrammed her radio with local repeaters, but also set up simplex frequencies we plan to use. She has her license, but no real desire to use the radio unless there's an emergency, but in the event of an emergency it's too late to start learning how to use the radio. I thought about putting one of my spare 10M radios in her car, but I think that would be a bit much for her.

 

[gruntz03]

Where are you going to refill your gas tank?

I keep a rack of 5 gallon cans and always butt chug a gallon for reserve.

 

[gruntz03]

What the heck is a GHB handheld transceiver? Is this some ham mumbo jumbo?

You translated “HT” so you have revealed yourself hammer!

 

[gruntz03]

Does daughter know how to operate radio A and antenna B? Is she carrying a firearm for safety whilst retreating into the woods for extraction?

If it were me, and I do have this in a solar-powered backpack, ready to go, I'd go with a Yaesu FT-817ND or 818ND (I have the FT-817ND) and an ATAS-25 or G5RV antenna. No, it won't light the bands on fire, but it will get some distance with HF. I also have PowerPoles installed on the battery pack, 3D printed some PowerPole distribution boxes, and I can power my radio and tuner with the solar panel on the backpack (I took out the battery holder and installed a 12V to 6V converter so I can run it off my solar backpack). The backpack is a Voltaic backpack with battery (https://voltaicsystems.com/) - keep an eye out on Prime Day.

That being said, are you and you daughter licensed hams? I know there's an element that believes "in an emergency licenses won't be relevant" but there's a lot more to just hooking up an antenna to a radio and talking. You need to know band conditions (and post-EMP conditions will likely be very crowded with every other prepper-ham communicating). You need to have a frequency where you'll meet (preferably one for each band). You need an antenna tuner and know how to use it (even if it's automatic). You need feedline to connect your antenna to your radio.

That being said, I have a Yaesu FT-857D in my vehicle and use it on a near daily basis. I got a Baofeng radio for my wife (who also has her ham radio license) and put it in her glovebox, along with an instruction card I wrote for her on how to use the radio. I preprogrammed her radio with local repeaters, but also set up simplex frequencies we plan to use. She has her license, but no real desire to use the radio unless there's an emergency, but in the event of an emergency it's too late to start learning how to use the radio. I thought about putting one of my spare 10M radios in her car, but I think that would be a bit much for her.

Daughter is just spreading her wings a little and I’m trying to be prepared. Just trying to come up with a setup where we could have a set of instructions for any given trip, a preprogrammed raid be able to throw an antenna into a tree in the right direction and try to give us a leg up.

I have my license, she does not yet.

 

[wrc]

In the end, license doesn't matter. And you can practice with hardened mil or otherwise good 10m rigs on whatever frequency in the band you like, because no uptight 90yo ham that still knows morse code is going to be able to hfdf you from their mobility scooter. You can work with impunity. Get those 1500 mile comms up.

The actual banal work of a comms plan and keeping time when cell phone service is out is the most important part to practice.

Why does you daughter not *already* have a mobile 10m rig, a center-fed dipole, and a mesh sack full of clips, webbing, and paracord to rig it up?

 

[Mark75H]

With a very tall vehicle, my longest simplex vhf QSO was 11 miles with 10 times the power of an HT.

What the experienced hams are trying to say: This is all fantasy. Radio just doesn't work like that.

 

[wrc]

Here's a realistic ham-adjacent plan. Get ids on the two most popular worldwide DMR nets (I will not name them here lest there be sperg outs). In the event of emergency, that's going to be your best bet for infrastructure that the autistic (and God bless them!) men will keep running until their last finger drops off due to mutation in the nuclear war you envision.

Or, get on 10M with all the 18 echos and mobility scooter dudes.

 

[gruntz03]

With a very tall vehicle, my longest simplex vhf QSO was 11 miles with 10 times the power of an HT.

What the experienced hams are trying to say: This is all fantasy. Radio just doesn't work like that.

Fantasy? I didn’t give any performance parameters I wanted to meet.
Short Version- what ht/antennae plus mobile/antennae combo would you use to achieve the longest range? There is a big difference between 2 miles and 10 miles.

 

[gruntz03]

Does Baofeng make those mobility scooters?

 

[Mark75H]

Fantasy? I didn’t give any performance parameters I wanted to meet.
Short Version- what ht/antennae plus mobile/antennae combo would you use to achieve the longest range? There is a big difference between 2 miles and 10 miles.

The HT will be the limiting factor and you will remain maxed at 2 miles regardless of antenna and model of HT. Another greatly limiting factor will be understanding of antenna polarization. Do both parties understand antenna polarization?

 

[outrider58]

I'm here for the peppered lunch meat...

 

[gamer_jim]

My prepper group has been talking about this and how to do reliable off-grid comms.

We need a schedule of when we will attempt to communicate. For example: every other hour at 15 past the hour get to the highest point you can on an agreed upon frequency and try to make contact. For routes you usually take, like to work or family, map out those high points ahead of time.

There's lots of hams here on the east coast who operate or can set up a repeater quickly. So even if a few of them die (repeaters, not hams) others may still be available. I don't think EMPs are like in the movies or books where all electronics will be silenced. I think it will be in waves and depending on grounding some stations may fair better than others.

Point is, also keep a written list of repeaters and their tones along your intended journey. Include these repeaters in your communication schedule. Maybe 15mins past try simplex then if no contact try repeater 1 at 18 mins, etc.

Also check out the National Traffic System. Even if you can't communicate directly with a family member the NTS might be able to get a message to them.

 

[E.Shell]

I'm here for the lunch meat...

I'm here to learn to defy logic and physics.

Mark375H is correct. An HT is limited by its low power, low AGL elevation, short & inefficient antenna and limited ground plane of the radio frame, and thus will be the limiting factor in any two-way system. Power differences of a few watts (4-5 vs 6-8) mean almost nothing in this context.

I use Yeasu VX-7Rs (5 watts on 2m) with Diamond SRH77CA antennas (@ 15" is double the length of the OEM antenna). I have been able to note improved performance with the longer antennas, in the form of a few extra S-units at both ends. I was only able to reach my own former home station (a 1/4 wave ground plane at 75' AGL) out to about 3 miles. This is due to terrain and intervening cover that blocks, deflects and/or absorbs the signal. Having open line-of-sight (LOS) changes this for the better, but LOS is hard to achieve in most cases and cannot be counted on.

I have a 50 watt mobile rig in my vehicle, which is about an average output for a mobile 2m radio, and use it with a 1/4 wave ground plane. From hilltop to hilltop, I have been able to stretch it to a repeater 75 miles away, but that is an unusual situation and all of my simplex contacts have been brief and limited by our vehicles rapidly moving out of range of each other, or lost contact due to mountains/hills between us. I don't know exactly how far I've talked vehicle-to-vehicle , but I'd bet it didn't exceed 15 miles.

If the OPs daughter is going to hide out in the woods with an HT, the way to make the best of it will be to have a roll-up J-Pole antenna with about 15-20 feet of lightweight, low loss cable (LMR-240 flex), with 20-30 feet of string and a weight to use to get it up over a tree limb. The OEM antenna is dismounted and the elevated J-Pole connected. Be sure you have all necessary coax adapters/connectors. This will change the dynamic of the HT and probably double or triple the range.

Due to her limited battery power (carry an extra), she should not TX and should listen for you. Put a Timex (and compass) in her go-box and set up a schedule, where you will transmit at fixed intervals and she will know when to listen. Arrange a second call frequency, in case of local interference. Avoid recognized simplex frequencies and repeater pairs for better privacy/security.

 

[gruntz03]

The HT will be the limiting factor and you will remain maxed at 2 miles regardless of antenna and model of HT. Another greatly limiting factor will be understanding of antenna polarization. Do both parties understand antenna polarization?

I’m have no doubt that everything you have said is true. What setup would you use to get the best results?

 

[Pale Ryder]

I gots nothing. Was expecting a thread about salting pork butts.

 

[E.Shell]

I gots nothing. Was expecting a thread about salting pork butts.

Those are actually shoulders and not hams.