Project Fast and Furious Thread

[jpk1md]

You realize that is this if right, the US is in contravention of laws regarding the export of arms that could be used to topple a peaceful government?

I don't know if this blunts the Tuscon high-cap arguments. Different stories. But the administration was obviously angling to use the Mexican Cartels as the strawman argument for greater control in the USA. This kills that.

Of course, we are all assuming the MSM actually covers the story. They can bury this and then still report on the "US Gun Problem" all they want.

Bullseye Patrick

As sad as Tuscon was we all know that this stunt eclipses that by orders of magnitude.

All we know about is 1 shooting but to allow hundreds of firearms into what is effectively a war zone pretty much ensures that a whole lot more people have been killed/wounded etc than just the one and will continue for a long time.

That this isn't being covered by MSM on EITHER side to any degree is shameful.

This event really should be nearly the equivalent of Iran Contra for Obama

 

[ezliving]

Letters from Sen. Grassley to BATFE

• http://www.scribd.com/doc/47909152/ATF1-1
• http://www.scribd.com/doc/47909228/ATF2

On Monday, a concerned Grassley sent a follow-up letter, writing that while ATF had not yet responded to his request for a meeting, one of the whistleblowers that Grassley's office had been dealing with -- a current ATF employee -- was "allegedly accused... of misconduct" by his boss for talking with Senate staffers.

But a former ATF agent told FoxNews.com on condition of anonymity that ATF Headquarters allowed guns to cross the border, for the reason that ATF wanted to glean more intelligence about who would come to possess the guns and what regions of the country they would end up in.

Additionally, Dick Deguerin, attorney for a Texas gun store named "Carter Country," told Fox26 Houston that the ATF asked the store to sell the guns to even those they thought were going to smuggle them to Mexico -- so that ATF could track where the guns went.

"They were told to go through with sales of three or more assault rifles at the same time... They went through with the sales because the ATF told them to go through with the sales," Deguerin said, adding that the store reported all suspicious sales to the ATF.

Federal investigators are known to use such techniques in drug trafficking investigations.

Story update: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...-atf-allegations-agency-allowing-guns-mexico/

 

[Splitter]

I agree that ATF manufactured the whole deal to 'show results', but they didn't do it without some political proding, otherwise why would $80-some-Million have been sent their way to sweeten the operation.

6 gun runners and 16 weapons seized didn't fit the administration's narrative, so they pushed a few politcal appointees into doing something stupid. Except we're dealing with the 'gang that couldn't shoot straight' when the whole deal went south, resulting in a dead agent and a whistle-blower-fest extraordinaire.

So now the administration is using the debacle as yet another talking point for gun-control ... "Never let a crisis go to waste" - Rahm Emanuel

Where's my Stamp ???

THIS!

US guns in Mexico has been a big story even involving comments from the State Department from Hillary herself.

Not enough US guns getting found in Mexico? Send them some more, do it under the cover of an investigation, and track them to inflate the numbers.

Think about it....more US guns getting found in Mexico moves their agenda forward. Look at who would benefit.

Where are Woodward and Bernstein?

Splitter

 

[ezliving]

WashPo is reporting a large budget cut for the BATFE... and they are not happy about it.

The proposed ATF cutbacks, which would amount to nearly $160 million out of a $1.25 billion budget request - a 12.8 percent reduction that would also be 3.6 percent below the current budget - are outlined in a preliminary budget document obtained by The Washington Post.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/30/AR2011013004670.html

 

[Patrick]

As long as they keep and expand the NFA branch to add more examiners, I don't care about the rest of the budget. How's that for issue-based budgeting?

Better yet...why the hell do we even need tax stamps for suppressors and SBRs? Let's do away with it, or make it an automated system where they run a NICS and I pay my $200 ransom in ten minutes. And get rid of these damn travel rules. And sharing. It's just a fancy registration system for items that are hardly ever used in a crime.

If the crime numbers meant anything, handguns would be the only item worth registering. But we know that cannot pass legislative or judicial review. So why are we bothering with the other stuff?


EDIT: Sorry. That is going to cause a thread jack of my own thread. I take it all back.

Actually, no. I don't.

 

[SkunkWerX]

As long as they keep and expand the NFA branch to add more examiners, I don't care about the rest of the budget. How's that for issue-based budgeting?

Better yet...why the hell do we even need tax stamps for suppressors and SBRs? Let's do away with it, or make it an automated system where they run a NICS and I pay my $200 ransom in ten minutes. And get rid of these damn travel rules. And sharing. It's just a fancy registration system for items that are hardly ever used in a crime.

If the crime numbers meant anything, handguns would be the only item worth registering. But we know that cannot pass legislative or judicial review. So why are we bothering with the other stuff?


EDIT: Sorry. That is going to cause a thread jack of my own thread. I take it all back.

Actually, no. I don't.

Point taken.
Prompted by the Project Gunrunner scandal, a full review and full revamp of BATF/NFA needs to take place. As well, GCA '34 and '68 need to be addressed (repealed).

ANy ClassIII FFL should be able to process an NFA transfer, just like any other transfer. ESPECIALLY if you have been through the system at least once already!!
They probably keep the finger print cards in the same place MD keeps the fired shell casings. (Where the sun don't shine).

 

[hvymax]

WashPo is reporting a large budget cut for the BATFE... and they are not happy about it.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/30/AR2011013004670.html

Of couse they are not happy that their cohorts were caught creating the disaster that required banning our guns to fix. This would be the equivalent of evidence that Bush actually did blow up the World Trade Center. This clearly goes the whole way to the AG and State Dept and probably beyond. Now all of their pronunciations and predictions about American guns in Mexico make sense because they were the ones that planted them. They planted the guns then show up with cameras and scream OMG we need to ban guns. These are the same people who planted a handful of pebbles on the beach at Normandy so Bill Clinton could stoically pause and arrange them into a cross.

 

[Patrick]

Of couse they are not happy that their cohorts were caught creating the disaster that required banning our guns to fix. This would be the equivalent of evidence that Bush actually did blow up the World Trade Center. This clearly goes the whole way to the AG and State Dept and probably beyond. Now all of their pronunciations and predictions about American guns in Mexico make sense because they were the ones that planted them. They planted the guns then show up with cameras and scream OMG we need to ban guns. These are the same people who planted a handful of pebbles on the beach at Normandy so Bill Clinton could stoically pause and arrange them into a cross.

Really?

I didn't know about that. It seems cheesy and without class. Total Bubba.

 

[mvee]

Really?

I didn't know about that. It seems cheesy and without class. Total Bubba.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4131/4846400853_798d649a4a_z.jpg

 

[Patrick]

Hate when they do that.

And they all do it.

 

[hvymax]

Yes they were comemorating the anniversary and the cameras showed Clinton strolling stoically down the beach when he comes across a cluster of pebbles completely out of place with the rest of the beach where he somberly rearanged them into a cross.

 

[ezliving]

Liberal media is picking up the Gunrunner story: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-atf-guns-20110203,0,6169639.story

Looking worse for the ATF.

In a sign of the cost of widespread U.S. weapons smuggling into Mexico, federal law enforcement sources have confirmed that two guns, part of a series of purchases that were being monitored by authorities, were found at the scene of the firefight that killed a U.S. Border Patrol agent in southern Arizona.

Sources said U.S. authorities did not have the ability to adequately monitor the movement of the guns toward the southern border, in part because current laws and low levels of staffing.

As a result, "the next time they became aware of those weapons was when they turned up at the crime scene," said one source, who, like others connected to the case, spoke on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing criminal investigation.

"My worst fear was that they would be used in a homicide of a Mexican military official or a Mexican police official. It crossed my mind that they would be used against U.S. forces, but I didn't think it would happen this soon," said another federal law enforcement source.

All this is reinforcing my belief that Obama will do a recess appointment of Andrew Traver as director of the BATFE. He won't want tough questions asked or answered.

 

[Hopalong]

in part because current laws and low levels of staffing.

Interesting spin there. It's like saying that this whole thing would have worked if they had more money and tighter laws. Wow.

 

[Bikebreath]

"in part because current laws and low levels of staffing. "

Interesting spin there. It's like saying that this whole thing would have worked if they had more money and tighter laws. Wow.

Interesting spin, my ass! If I don't have staffing and laws don't allow I go with plan B, unless I'm an idiot. I can't wait for this to hurt them...

 

[SkunkWerX]

Fox threw this tidbit into their story today:

"FoxNews.com previously reported that an often-quoted statistic that 90 percent of guns used in Mexico crimes came from the U.S. was, in fact, a myth. Only 17 percent of guns found at Mexican crime scenes have actually been traced to the U.S."
link to article: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...-atf-allegations-agency-allowing-guns-mexico/

IF the ONLY thing that comes of this are the actual stats versus the contrived stats....that's progress.

The journalists and politicians used one of the oldest tricks in the book when they originally published numbers.

like this: "Of the guns traced, 90% were from the US."
OK, so, they only traced guns with serial numbers, because they know the US requires serial numbers on weapons.

 

[Patrick]

Liberal media is picking up the Gunrunner story: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-atf-guns-20110203,0,6169639.story

Looking worse for the ATF.



All this is reinforcing my belief that Obama will do a recess appointment of Andrew Traver as director of the BATFE. He won't want tough questions asked or answered.

That will be a long wait. The current Congress is only a few weeks old and still hasn't put forth a budget for the fiscal year that started last October. They will be a while yet.

Obama could have appointed Traver during the break, were it not for the fact Schumer scuttled him. The nomination was "sent back" to the White House prior to the break. That means "rejected". The president cannot appoint someone rejected by the Senate; only someone who is under consideration.

Schumer shut Traver down because [RUMINT] Traver wanted someone at Justice or in the Congress to clean out the office of general counsel at ATF (a rat's nest of politcos and crooks). He wanted the house cleaned before he got there so he would not have to do it. OLC at ATF is real tight with Schumer - they have done lots of work together over the years. Schumer sent Traver's nomination back and the Republicans were all too happy to go along.[/RUMINT]

If the MSM ever gets a clue, ATF might not need a director ever again.

 

[Minuteman]

I read one newspaper article (couldn't find it again, sorry), that described the Arizona (insane) shooters weapon as a 'sub-machine gun'. How's that for alarmist!

 

[Goose Guy]

I sincerely hope that the ones behind this are labeled traitors and given the (full) right punishment. Unbelieveable that this isn't all over the news.

 

[Lex Armarum]

May have a opportunity for an enterprising activist and/or journalist to write something on this for big government (dot) com. PM me for details if you're interested.

 

[krucam]

The DOJ replied back (cold shoulder) to Grassley yesterday, reported by John at Only Guns & Money:
http://onlygunsandmoney.blogspot.com/2011/02/doj-stonewalls-grassley-on-project.html

Today, Grassley fired back...
http://onlygunsandmoney.blogspot.com/2011/02/five-questions.html

AP has now picked this up as well...