aquaman
Ultimate Member
I like your style
Received letter today from BATFE regarding purchase from Diversified Machine
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I like your style
The ATF is well known for their stellar customer service.
Just ask the fine folks from Waco Texas...
- Dec 27, 2012
- 30,238
I wouldn't want anything left open-ended with the AFT so I'd respond. I'd also have zero hope that responding would in anyway close it out on their end but I'd still go through the motions.
mauser58
My home is a sports store
The ATF and other agencies are too big and they want to look like they are all needed. What better to do than look like they all are important and needed.
Some 'special agent' just 'initiated 10,000 contacts'. It'll show up in his promotion report.
They are 'special' alright.
Also not a lawyer, however, as a bureaucrat with industry experience, I would read this as the ATF's position:
- DM manufactured silencers (assuming w/o a SOT).
- Their customers unknowingly purchased silencers w/o a form 4 and need to dispose of their illegal silencer.
- A customer who filed a Form 1 had it approved in error and once the silencer is disposed of, is entitled to a refund of their paid tax (if filed as an individual and not a SOT). However, customers would need to get settlement from DM for their purchase (which probably wouldn't happen until after a settlement, if ever).
Note: not my position, just my read on the situation.
Never bad advice to talk to real lawyer. If it were me, I'd contact both the office handling the case and NFA branch to get clarification (in case it need be said, in writing).
If they're not smart enough to have planned to issue tax refunds, then I think there's the makings of a class action law suit.
That may well be a tack they are working on. In their buerocrat minds, the fact that the OP didn't take delivery of this until he had an approved form1 may not matter as what DM sent him was a 'silencer', not a machined part that the OP used to build a silencer.
Chances are, if he responds, they will just tell him 'oh yeah, we already knew that you are ok due to the applicable form1 however in our multi-billion-dollar agency, we have nobody who can create a database query that would have eliminated you from the address label print run'.
First of all, this was an entirely predictable outcome of selling form 1 kits, which is why I personally declined to go that route. The BATFE has way too much discretionary authority over what constitutes a suppressor, and it was hardly surprising they decided these fell under that category. If you bought a "kit" from anyone else, rest assured that it's probably only a matter of time before you get one of these letters.
(It's only a matter of time before the other shoe drops with braces, incidentally. Expect to see a bunch determined as stocks outright.)
(It's only a matter of time before the other shoe drops with braces, incidentally. Expect to see a bunch determined as stocks outright.)
Yes. This is the upshot of that letter. They are asking semi-politely for you to return the kit and anything you made out of it. It's POSSIBLE they will let form 1 builds slide, but I'm skeptical.
Nope. You're not getting anything back from the BATFE. You could, I guess, manufacture a new silencer, though, since you technically didn't manufacture a silencer (thanks, Diversified Machine!).
Tungsten
Ultimate Member
LOL. The PS was the best part.
I'd just send a FU letter to Keith, make sure to mention his mother in the letter as well. Sprinkle some donut crumbs in the letter to show him you are a friendly.
Of course, I don't have a dog, but I do have a POS cat so hopefully when they break down my door they could kill that bastard and be of some benefit to the world.
- Feb 17, 2011
- 14,024
Send them a pic of it being used as a solvent trap....
NFA branch will issue a refund for an issue resulting in a problem with an application or an error on their part. The problem in this case is that the reason for the refund is caused by enforcement. I don't know exactly how DoJ/ATF manages their funding internally, but I can imagine it could be a problem. Since such instructions aren't in the letter, which could be in favor of brevity but, I suspect is a gap in their planning. The amount of money involved could also be small enough that it isn't an issue for NFA branch to absorb. My advice to the OP & anyone affected by this would be;
1. if they have to surrender their silencer, and
2. they don't get a refund ( for the tax; I think for the parts would be a real reach)
then contact one of the advocacy groups to see if there's a case to be made.
Oneqwickr6
Member
- Feb 8, 2013
- 60
I'm still wondering why the ATF only has a problem with diversified machining? Is it because the cups were dimpled in the middle? There's other sights now still selling form 1 kits still. And quietbore says they have spoken to the ATF and there lawyers and the ATF has no problem with how they are conducting there sales ? Maybe because they require a form 1 to ship. But the ATF seems to be leaving the other sites alone and is it only because of the dimples in the cups that they went after diversified? Maybe the other sites are next but they say they have ATF approval
thank you
Thanks for the dimple explanation. I am not familiar and wondered why DM was picked. I was thinking it was akin to an 80%- unless QuitBore is more akin...
Thanks for the dimple explanation. I am not familiar and wondered why DM was picked. I was thinking it was akin to an 80%- unless QuitBore is more akin...
Oneqwickr6
Member
- Feb 8, 2013
- 60
Alot of guys were speculating that it's because there cups were dimpled in the center and basically to close to being finished kinda like how the ATF said those AR lowers that had the 3rd seer hole stamped inside to side to make it look full auto were actually illegal machine guns because the dimple was in the receiver
Except they were strangely OK with Daniel Defense selling guns with the dimple.
I’ll tell you this that DM made some
Extremely high quality solvent trap parts. Absolutely high standards on the machining. Their QD mounts fit perfectly. They didn’t actually market a complete kit IIRC it was just individual parts. Cups, Tubes, Spacers, End caps and adapters. Just like 50 other companies at the time.
Who knows what actually happened. Perhaps the ATF sent them a nastygram and the owner told them to pound sand.
In any event I’ll probably tap my lawyer on the shoulder and pay to draft a response letter just to close this out. If they want to “confiscate” my legal device I guess we’ll cross that bridge when it comes to it. It will just give me a good reason to buy another Omega or something else.
But they didn't make an error in terms of approving the application. The application should have been approved. The problem is that Diversified Machine was shipping out parts that were determined to be suppressors. This is akin to someone shipping you a Colt 6933 after you filed a form 1 to build an SBR out of Colt 6933 parts, at least in the ATF's eyes. They're under no obligation to refund you in that circumstance.
An 80% lower maker got burned for something very similar (color coding the semi-auto holes in the receiver), and it took a fair bit of time for the HK91 crowd to figure out how to get the ATF to allow them to drill paddle holes.
You guys can tell the ATF to **** off as much as you want, but if that's the plan, I'd advise having a lawyer on speed dial if they come knocking to "talk" to you about your legal situation. Better part of valor might be contacting them and figuring out precisely which parts they're considering to be problematic, and returning those.
platoonDaddy
Ultimate Member
The letters are form, did the envelope have your name?
Link talking about the raid on DM
https://youtu.be/jPiAx9uy1OM
TruthAboutGuns https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/atf-just-fedexd-warning-letters-to-thousands-of-silencer-part-consumers/
This demonstrates a major flaw in this letter and in the ATF’s thinking, such as it is. While the letter asserts that the recipient bought components from Diversified Machine — and didn’t register them as silencers — the ATF has no idea if this is true or not.
Link talking about the raid on DM
https://youtu.be/jPiAx9uy1OM
TruthAboutGuns https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/atf-just-fedexd-warning-letters-to-thousands-of-silencer-part-consumers/
This demonstrates a major flaw in this letter and in the ATF’s thinking, such as it is. While the letter asserts that the recipient bought components from Diversified Machine — and didn’t register them as silencers — the ATF has no idea if this is true or not.
