Recipe Help

[jpo183]

Ok I have the discontinued Winchester AA Plus powder. It states that it can be used for handgun but no data exist. Called Winchester who referred me to Hodgian who doesn't have any info either.

Some research shows that the relative burn rates are as follows:

10 Hodgdon Titegroup
11 Accurate No. 2
12 Alliant American Select
13 Winchester AA Plus Discontinued
14 Hodgdon Clays
15 Vihta Vuori N320
16 Ramshot Competition

What I wanted to do was to use Alliant American Select data and test the load. I would put LESS powder in the first charge and see how it works.

I am going to get a chrono to use, what type of velocity for 9mm should I be looking for?

I want to use this powder, is this the best method to try? Any pointers would be great to help keep my own pointers.

 

[Pinecone]

What calibers?

Many people have older loading manuals from when the powder was still available.

Using burn rate tables the way you are suggesting is NOT a good idea.

*** This is the approximate order of burning rates for established brands of powder from fastest to slowest. Powders tend to switch positions especially those close in burning rate, depending upon the characteristics of the cartridge and other variables. Be sure to refer to manufacturer loading data manuals for proper charges.

 

[guthook]

Ok I have the discontinued Winchester AA Plus powder. It states that it can be used for handgun but no data exist. Called Winchester who referred me to Hodgian who doesn't have any info either.

Some research shows that the relative burn rates are as follows:

10 Hodgdon Titegroup
11 Accurate No. 2
12 Alliant American Select
13 Winchester AA Plus Discontinued
14 Hodgdon Clays
15 Vihta Vuori N320
16 Ramshot Competition

What I wanted to do was to use Alliant American Select data and test the load. I would put LESS powder in the first charge and see how it works.

I am going to get a chrono to use, what type of velocity for 9mm should I be looking for?

I want to use this powder, is this the best method to try? Any pointers would be great to help keep my own pointers.

Please post your bullet weight and type. Also, is this for pistol or rifle? Charge and velocity will change with each variable.

 

[wgttgw]

looked through some of my old manuals. My manuals only go into the 70's. I have some loads for winchester 473AA and 452AA. did not see any for an AAplus. If any either of the above are what you have you are welcome to any data I can find.

 

[iH8DemLibz]

Just my two cents, but starting with less powder is a bad idea on some powders. Some powders will tell you point blank (no reduced power loads). If your not sure, you shouldn't do it. Too much air space in the case. Bullet may not leave the bore. Etc...

Unless your sitting on 10 pounds of the stuff and you can't bear to throw it out, I would buy current powder and work some loads up with that. Plus old powder picks up moisture and breaks down over time.

And if you have not done so, buy a Hornady or Speer Bible. Worth it's weight in gold.

In short, reloading should NEVER be guess work until you become really familiar with a particular powder.

Just say'in.

 

[Jaybeez]

I have some really old manuals, I can take a look if tou tell me what you want to load.

 

[jpo183]

winchester AA Plus Ball, 124 lead grain bullets 9mm, winchester small pistol primers

 

[Jaybeez]

I found a bunch of shotshell loads, but No pistol.

 

[jpo183]

thanks, yea on the container it says for handguns as well however according to hodgin they did not do handgun test since it was discontinued and replaced with something else.

Based on the burn chart I posted above I should be able to use the AA select data?

 

[jpo183]

thanks, yea on the container it says for handguns as well however according to hodgin they did not do handgun test since it was discontinued and replaced with something else.

Based on the burn chart I posted above I should be able to use the AA select data?

 

[Mdeng]

If you can't find reliable load data is it really worth it to save $30 on a 1# of powder?

Dump the powder and keep the can for display. Head out to the store and pick up some fresh clays or tite group. Hell I may be willing to trade you an unopened container of hodgdon clays for the old container for my collection.

 

[SOMDSHOOT]

WOW I thought I was the only one with some off the wall powder. I went to get a can of Hodgdon Clays this past Saturday and had to settle for a lone can of Winchester AA Super-Handicap instead for my 12 gauge shotshell reloads. The load data is on the can of course, but, in order to find any data for any of the Winchester / IMR powders you have to the Hodgdon website, which quickly I realized, seems to be all the same / similar powders.

I am not familiar with this Winchester AA stuff, but, I can learn like anything else. Just need to reload a few and see where I stand with the stated 20 grain suggestion on the can, which I know is not going to be enough since my current loads with the Hodgdon Clays is a lot more than the can states.

If you go to the Hodgdon website you'll notice that Winchester, IMR, & Hodgdon are all listed on the same start page HERE.

I did find some load data for the SH Win. AA so it gave me a starting point if nothing else, so, you might be able to use that in some fashion.

.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Ok , you just had to stump me.
I frequently like to state that ANY shotgun powder will also be usable in handgun . But AAPlus aka AA+ aka WAAP is a real booger to come up with loads.

The problem isn't even that it is discontinued per se. The problem is that it is a discontinued powder that was only produced for a couple years , and was never popular or widely used.

I was able to find a sliver of information on it.

While the advertising and packaging state that it had pistol usages , W-W had done zero testing with metalic ctgs before it was discontinued.

I did find one 'net posting giving a load for 9mm 115gr , but they seem to have pulled it from thin air , and I won't repeat it.

A seemingly more knowledegable poster states he had found factory duplication loadings in 9mm , .40 , and .45acp , but no actual loads given.

I did find multiple references to two popwders which *should* have *similar* charge wts as WAAP. I will say that so far nobody as guessed which powders those were. And I do not feel comfortable posting in open foroum what they were. Anyone here that I know to be experienced handload can PM if interested.

What I found that I do feel comfortable to mention , is to reduce starting loads of WST by 10% . But WST was only marginally more popular, and W-W only produced load data for 38spl , .38+P , .40 , 10mm, and .45acp. Not 9mm .

I declare myself offically stumped. There are ways of load development from clean paper , but if you have to ask , don't even think about it.

There are a dozen popular powders for your desired usage. There are at least another two dozen less popular powders that do have published Data. Get one of those , and sell/ trade/ gift the WAAP to either a shotgun reloader , or a collector.

 

[hvymax]

You could always use it in shotgun shells.

 

[iH8DemLibz]

If you can't find reliable load data is it really worth it to save $30 on a 1# of powder?

Dump the powder and keep the can for display. Head out to the store and pick up some fresh clays or tite group. Hell I may be willing to trade you an unopened container of hodgdon clays for the old container for my collection.

Again, This.

And one should never use flea market or auction powder either.

Penny wise-Pound foolish.

Just my .025

 

[jpo183]

I got it at a recent gun show and since I cannot seem to find any pistol powder elsewhere this looked like a good shot.

Mdeng Id take you up on that offer.

So reasoning that I am going to ignore the advice to dump it and according to the burn chart WAAP falls between Alliant American Select and Hodgdon Clays, which load data would you use.

When I test this I am going to be smart, I will have the gun secured and have the trigger pulled via a remote device.

 

[Traveler]

I got it at a recent gun show and since I cannot seem to find any pistol powder elsewhere this looked like a good shot.

Mdeng Id take you up on that offer.

So reasoning that I am going to ignore the advice to dump it and according to the burn chart WAAP falls between Alliant American Select and Hodgdon Clays, which load data would you use.

When I test this I am going to be smart, I will have the gun secured and have the trigger pulled via a remote device.

If you are that desperate I will trade that with you for an unopened can of WSF. I don't want to see you type badly in the forum with the fingers you have left. Lots of WSF pistol data out there. Be safe man.

PM me.

 

[molonlabe]

Just a pet peeve of mine. I was wondering when people started calling load data recipe's One of my friends who cut my grass after I was hospitalized took a reloading class from what I determined to be a jerk in that he had no reloading equipment present just instructions from a book. He also refered to the load data as recipe’s and my first response was WTF. So I asked this person what I could do and he asked me to teach him reloading. I have been doing that for all sorts of calibers since 82. So I took the Home NRA reloading certification course just so I could present him a certificate and we did pistol and rifle in 10 hours. He produced 20 30-06 and 50 38 sp.
As for my pet peeve

Manuals from VV, Alliant, Accurate, Hodgdon, Lyman, Lee, Hornady, and Sierra. They all use the term Reloading Data.
In their chapters, sometimes you see slang terms like recipe. It is slang in common use, clearly the writers and editors of those manuals like to use slang as other writers might. It would appear that slang is acceptable as long as the context makes the meaning clear.

Reloading Data appears to be industry terminology. Recipe appears to be common usage slang. Link http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=417152

Now the best advice is to get rid of it unless you have a lot. Also is it stable. It should not have a acidic smell (This would be nitric acid). An inspection of the powder should show no red rust like color. Unfortunately powder like this usually goes bad before it shows these signs and is caused by improper storage. Take travler up on his offer thats the best deal in town.

 

[pcfixer]

Just a pet peeve of mine. I was wondering when people started calling load data recipe's One of my friends who cut my grass after I was hospitalized took a reloading class from what I determined to be a jerk in that he had no reloading equipment present just instructions from a book. He also refered to the load data as recipe’s and my first response was WTF. So I asked this person what I could do and he asked me to teach him reloading. I have been doing that for all sorts of calibers since 82. So I took the Home NRA reloading certification course just so I could present him a certificate and we did pistol and rifle in 10 hours. He produced 20 30-06 and 50 38 sp.
As for my pet peeve

Manuals from VV, Alliant, Accurate, Hodgdon, Lyman, Lee, Hornady, and Sierra. They all use the term Reloading Data.
In their chapters, sometimes you see slang terms like recipe. It is slang in common use, clearly the writers and editors of those manuals like to use slang as other writers might. It would appear that slang is acceptable as long as the context makes the meaning clear.

Reloading Data appears to be industry terminology. Recipe appears to be common usage slang. Link http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=417152

Now the best advice is to get rid of it unless you have a lot. Also is it stable. It should not have a acidic smell (This would be nitric acid). An inspection of the powder should show no red rust like color. Unfortunately powder like this usually goes bad before it shows these signs and is caused by improper storage. Take travler up on his offer thats the best deal in town.

This is wise advice.
Taught to reload by my Grandfather 50+ years ago. Much of what is here I remember. He was a gunersmate in WWI, loaded alot of ammo in his years
and I have always revered his wisdom.

 

[MDlineman]

I got it at a recent gun show and since I cannot seem to find any pistol powder elsewhere this looked like a good shot.

Mdeng Id take you up on that offer.

So reasoning that I am going to ignore the advice to dump it and according to the burn chart WAAP falls between Alliant American Select and Hodgdon Clays, which load data would you use.

When I test this I am going to be smart, I will have the gun secured and have the trigger pulled via a remote device.

So you are going to risk damaging your gun to save a few bucks? Let me know how that works out for you.