Referendum

[AKbythebay]

What harm do you think it could do?

I think losing a referendum badly would just embolden the legislators and governor so say "look, the voters want this!" and would give them ammunitiion (bad word) to pass still more anti-2A legislation in the future. If they think 60-70% of the Maryland voters are in favor of this bill they will have no reason to even consider the views of the other side.

 

[tristan1127]

I usually don't get into the political discussions, but I have to question you people who think a referendum is wrong. Some of you have claimed that gun owners could face an embarassing loss in the vote. If that were the case, then the politicians were right all along and they were representing the beliefs of the majority of voters correctly all along. If you truly don't believe this statement, then you should not be against a referendum.

 

[Shift]

I think losing a referendum badly would just embolden the legislators and governor so say "look, the voters want this!" and would give them ammunitiion (bad word) to pass still more anti-2A legislation in the future. If they think 60-70% of the Maryland voters are in favor of this bill they will have no reason to even consider the views of the other side.

Maybe so but that is why we have a constitution. Just because they push for even more strict regulation does not mean they can implement it. How much worse could they possibly get.

 

[fightinbluhen51]

Gas Tax - you can't petition "appropriation" bills to referendum. Basically anything that has to do with spending or taxing.

As for the gun bill, we can certainly take that to referendum, but in my opinion it will lose by 20%+ and may do more harm than good.

We (the pro-2A folks) tend to think most people share our views because we are on forums like this and tend to hang out with friends/relatives that share our views. But in Maryland, the state as a hole overwhelmingly supports this bill - I would guess 2/3 or more support it. Are they ignorant about it? Sure! But their vote counts the same as ours. We could take an embarrassing hit if this goes to the voters.

Point me to one nationwide poll that shows overwhelming support for gun control.

Most are 55+% in our favor and when ranked in terms of importance, it's like 6~8th on the list compared with econ, foreign policy, jobs, ect.

Plus, look at the MSI survey! Do not discount these ideas. Gay marriage, illegal tuition, gambling never opinion polled by those margins!

 

[fightinbluhen51]

I think losing a referendum badly would just embolden the legislators and governor so say "look, the voters want this!" and would give them ammunitiion (bad word) to pass still more anti-2A legislation in the future. If they think 60-70% of the Maryland voters are in favor of this bill they will have no reason to even consider the views of the other side.

They are already emboldened...they are petty tyrants who resorted to arm twisting and backroom deals!

The gov. showed up for the house floor debate! That breaks a major decorum and smacks of tyranny!

Besides, gun owners gun rights supporters tend to be quiet polling folks.

We have lost if this passes the senate...we have nothing to loose.

 

[fightinbluhen51]

Maybe so but that is why we have a constitution. Just because they push for even more strict regulation does not mean they can implement it. How much worse could they possibly get.

The Mob of the legislature has spoken...the mob of the people may speak differently. If they are one in the same, the courts will arbiter (notice I don't say they will arbiter correctly).

 

[rhull1971]

I'm no lawyer, but wouldnt it be in our long term interest to go through the process of Referendum (regardless of the outcome), just so we can say that we have exhausted all avenues prior to bringing it to the court system.

Seems like that would look better for our side particularly if it requires appeals.

 

[rhull1971]

Point me to one nationwide poll that shows overwhelming support for gun control.

Most are 55+% in our favor and when ranked in terms of importance, it's like 6~8th on the list compared with econ, foreign policy, jobs, ect.

Plus, look at the MSI survey! Do not discount these ideas. Gay marriage, illegal tuition, gambling never opinion polled by those margins!

Not only that, but you have to think about how many people DONT vote every year. It's not about what's popular, it's about who shows up at the polls. If the showing we had at Annapolis is any indication of our voters vs. their voters... We would crush this at the polls!

 

[AKbythebay]

Point me to one nationwide poll that shows overwhelming support for gun control.

Most are 55+% in our favor and when ranked in terms of importance, it's like 6~8th on the list compared with econ, foreign policy, jobs, ect.

Plus, look at the MSI survey! Do not discount these ideas. Gay marriage, illegal tuition, gambling never opinion polled by those margins!

Unless the whole nation would be voting in Maryland's referendum, national polls don't matter.

Here is what the Baltimore Sun poll found, and before you say it's biased and all, keep in mind their polls before the gay marriage and illegal immigrant tuition referendums were pretty darned close to the final result.

The poll of 800 registered voters, taken by the Annapolis-based firm OpinionWorks and released to The Baltimore Sun, shows overwhelming majorities favor banning the sale of assault weapons in Maryland and limiting the number of bullets a gun's magazine can hold.

Voters favor the assault weapons ban 62 percent to 35 percent, and they endorse 71 percent to 24 percent limiting gun magazines to 10 bullets, the poll found. The margin of error for the survey, which was conducted by telephone Dec. 28-30 and Jan. 2, is plus or minus 3.5 percentage points.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2013-01-13/news/bs-md-gun-poll-20130113_1_support-capital-punishment-penalty-gun-control

Look, I'm not happy about it believe me, but I think 60%+ in favor of it is pretty accurate given the makeup of this state and historical voting trends.

 

[goalie098]

I usually don't get into the political discussions, but I have to question you people who think a referendum is wrong. Some of you have claimed that gun owners could face an embarassing loss in the vote. If that were the case, then the politicians were right all along and they were representing the beliefs of the majority of voters correctly all along. If you truly don't believe this statement, then you should not be against a referendum.

Agreed but, The point of a Constitutional republic and the system in place si to prevent the populace from making emotional laws. The founding father understood people (as a large group) are bound by emotion and not by principal. The legislature's duty is to maintain the principle of freedom and the Constitution while representing the people fairly and justly. When they fail to do their sworn duty the courts are there to reinforce those principles of freedom set forth by the constitution.

I think (not that anyone cares ) that referendum would be good if we donate time and money to spread the word of what this really does and does not do. I am for referendum since it gives us more time to organize and educate the public fence sitters. We need spokespeople who can dissociate guns from crime. What people really want is crime reduction. they are just to emotional and lazy to look past the liberal rhetoric. While I agree with "come and take it" we cannot present that face.

 

[My Toy]

Actually it occurs to me that all that has gone on in MD since this legislative session may culminate in a perfect storm for MD gun owners in 2014. I don't think we will have any problem getting this on the ballot even with the new increased referendum requirements. The election in 2014 is an off year election and typically the voter turnout is less than Presidential year elections. If we do our part and can keep awareness heightened and are successful in re-registration of voters as DEMs (thats on my agenda in the near future); with a heavy turnout of pro-2A voters we may overturn this thing and as a bonus come through on the promise to unseat the enemies of our constitution that voted for this monstrosity. And who knows court cases in other states that will certainly precede ours may overturn this crap anyway.

 

[6-Pack]

It looks like us Carroll County folks may be able to get enough signatures and push a referendum anyways! Then the naysayers will have no choice to vote!

 

[JasonB]

The success or failure of this depends on WHO actually comes out to vote. Expect the liberals to fight this in full force with bussing people and get out the (liberal) vote strategies.

 

[goalie098]

It looks like us Carroll County folks may be able to get enough signatures and push a referendum anyways! Then the naysayers will have no choice to vote!

 

[KSFrostie]

You have my signature

 

[fightinbluhen51]

Unless the whole nation would be voting in Maryland's referendum, national polls don't matter.

Here is what the Baltimore Sun poll found, and before you say it's biased and all, keep in mind their polls before the gay marriage and illegal immigrant tuition referendums were pretty darned close to the final result.



http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2013-01-13/news/bs-md-gun-poll-20130113_1_support-capital-punishment-penalty-gun-control

Look, I'm not happy about it believe me, but I think 60%+ in favor of it is pretty accurate given the makeup of this state and historical voting trends.

Ugh...stop believing the Sun! Are you serious! No one has seen the polling data (the back of the page methods and questions) used in their poll and the WaPo poll.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

YOU GUYS ARE ARGUING OVER NOTHING!

People will try and take this to referendum! As you can see from this thread, its going to happen! So the REAL question is to those that don't think its a good idea... will you still support the referendum drive? The push will be made! Once it is made, will everyone back it? Its going to happen, so the question is not if its a good idea but will we look like fools not getting enough signatures to take it to referendum!

We must use the scorched earth policy... we fight them every chance we get! We may lose at referendum, but it still eats up their resources and buys time. Let Bloomberg dump money into a liberal state like MD. Less money to use somewhere else. Even if we lose in a liberal state like MD, the fact that they have a hard fight here will show that nationally, it will not happen! Why is the UCLA so effective? Because people know they will sue, win or not, but they will tie you up in lawsuits! So all they have to do is threaten to sue half the time! We need to get to the point that if they write the word "gun" or "firearm" in a law, they get sued.

 

[fightinbluhen51]

It looks like us Carroll County folks may be able to get enough signatures and push a referendum anyways! Then the naysayers will have no choice to vote!

Touche!

 

[occbrian]

Ugh...stop believing the Sun! Are you serious!

Ask yourself this question.

Do you think more than 40% of the voting population in MD (Balt, PG, MONT) would vote to repeal 281?

Do you really?

 

[Shift]

Ask yourself this question.

Do you think more than 40% of the voting population in MD (Balt, PG, MONT) would vote to repeal 281?

Do you really?

Do you think more than 40% of the voting population in MD (Balt, PG, MONT) will even bother showing up to the polls?