SAF on Toomey-Manchin Bill: Its a Godsend

[danb]

ht TTAG

 

[occbrian]

This does not upset me.

Check targets dealers. It's a Trojan horse for our side.

 

[Echo]

I'm beginning to think maybe we should support this.... O_o
He makes some good points but my worry is the amendments towards bans and mag limits.

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

"we cant have a guy going into a gun show who can barely speak English walking out with a gun.. With no check, nothing at all...goes on every day at every gun show". I call BS.

The addition of Internet trades opens a wide range of possibilities. Does even having an email discussion or creating a meeting place fall under this?

Forgive my suspicion, but I believe it is substantiated with the current web of legislation being created.

M-T is not a bill. It's an amendment.

*** With all this talk about "gun control", I haven't heard one politician say how they plan to take guns away from criminals ***

 

[danb]

I guess the way i look at it is that it has never taken me more than 15 minutes (2/3 of which is usually filling out the form) for the background check. I have had more problems with my debit card (the bank wanted me to verify my identity before charging so much $$$). If you give up something you know is worthless, at the cost of a very minor inconvenience, and get a whole lot in return, that's a great trade which gives you the moral high ground.

 

[Darth Fabulous]

I think he's right about this. Not sure what the big deal is about background checks. Some kind of gun control bill is going to happen whether we like it or not, so it's best to think of something that won't hurt us too much. Especially if there is a provision like Gottlieb said that allows one to buy a handgun in any state. Big victory for those of us in DC who have nos tores to buy from and have to pay the $125 transfer fee.

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

I guess the way i look at it is that it has never taken me more than 15 minutes (2/3 of which is usually filling out the form) for the background check. I have had more problems with my debit card (the bank wanted me to verify my identity before charging so much $$$). If you give up something you know is worthless, at the cost of a very minor inconvenience, and get a whole lot in return, that's a great trade which gives you the moral high ground.

If the M-T amendment was a bill rather than amendment to the Reid bill, we could discuss that alone. Did you read S 649?

*** With all this talk about "gun control", I haven't heard one politician say how they plan to take guns away from criminals ***

 

[occbrian]

Also... House could add multiple favorable amendments, forcing the senate and Obama to either take their "victory" and in the process, give us huge wins...

Or face the prospect of voting against "background checks."

This could end up being a huge victory for us.

 

[Al Norris]

I have read S. 649. I have also read the M-T amendment. While it has some language that is "nice" for us, overall, it is a barely watered down Schumer bill.

All firearms sold via a gun show, will have to go through the NICS. All firearms sold over the Internet (or in anyway facilitated through the Internet) will be subject to a NICS check. Further, any firearm that is "published" for sale, will also come under the NICS check.

The key here is that "published" is left undefined. To the ordinary citizen, they may think that includes newspapers or weekly ads. That's certainly, "published." But it is left up to the US AG to determine the meaning of "published." Want to bet that if you tack a 3x5 card on your local stores community board that this will fall under the definition of, "published?"

Like the Schumer bill, we aren't talking about sales. We are talking about Transfers. There is an exceptions list of transfers that won't need a NICS check. But by and large, all transfers (read, private sales, loans and gifts) will be regulated.

This amendment, with the help of Alan Gottlieb, is only slightly less odious than the original bill. If this is the best our side can do, full registration is not far behind.

 

[Echo]

If the M-T amendment was a bill rather than amendment to the Reid bill, we could discuss that alone. Did you read S 649?

*** With all this talk about "gun control", I haven't heard one politician say how they plan to take guns away from criminals ***

This is the bill S. 649 right? http://www.toomey.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=968

I read through most of it and it seems to have everything mentioned in the video.

So what are you guys talking about one is a bill, the other is amendments?

Is S. 649 only an amednement? Where can I find a copy of the main bill?

 

[ddeanjohnson]

link to 10-point summary on the Manchin-Toomey transfer/background check provisions

As the discussion above illustrates, there is a lot of confusion on this forum, and others, about what is currently happening in the U.S. Senate.

The pending Manchin-Toomey Amendment (formally, Amendment No. 715 to S. 649), 49 pages long in the official printed version, covers quite a bit of ground. For example, there are extensive provisions about getting state mental-health records into the federal system, how to deal with issues concerning veterans who have been classified as having mental health issues by the VA, and so forth. That is all important stuff. But for the moment, I have zeroed in on those provisions of Manchin-Toomey that relate to transfers of firearms and background checks, since these may be of particular interest to some of the participants in this forum, particularly given the array of old and new restrictions that we already deal with in Maryland.

My new post, titled "Summary: Manchin-Toomey transfer/background requirements and application to Maryland, is here:
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?p=2350498#post2350498

 

[rmiddle]

ht TTAG

Looks like CCRKBA is following SAF and supporting the bill.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...ndorses-manchin-toomey-background-check-deal/

 

[MDFF2008]

He's a smart man who's done A LOT for 2A. Not saying he's right, but it could be interesting. Maybe he know something he can't say yet.

 

[occbrian]

He's a smart man who's done A LOT for 2A. Not saying he's right, but it could be interesting. Maybe he know something he can't say yet.

I'd like to see something rather innocuous pass out of the senate and then get loaded with poison pills on our side in the house.

 

[MDFF2008]

I would be fascinated by a true compromise, where we get as much as we give.

 

[frdfandc]

So lets see.

A "background check" for Internet purchases (already happens) gun show purchases through a dealer (already happens), no checks on private transfers (already happens)

in exchange for...

Being able to purchase a handgun in all 50 states
Restoration of rights
Zero liability - civil or criminal - against a citizen who sold a gun that was used in a crime
And probably more things that was not mentioned in the video.

I might be able to live with that type of compromise.

 

[MDFF2008]

15 years in jail for creating a gun registry.

 

[occbrian]

Unfortunately, it looks like a sale made on the classifieds here or in EE on arfcom would necessitate a trip to an ffl for NICS.

 

[OnTarget]

Being 49 pages long and covering a lot of ground, I think that one NEEDS to read the entire Amendment/Bill before jumping aboard, based on just a few comments. This is too important a matter! This is more prudent than basing a decision on what one individual says. We've been steered the wrong way before. Besides, NRA hasn't changed their view. I have to laugh how easily people are swayed.

 

[Abacab]

Gottlieb, Gura, CCRKBA and the SAF can go screw themselves. This is not the first time Gottlieb has been caught selling out gun owners. Gura did the same before SCOTUS. The beltway crowd and the pseudo-beltway crowd love the idea of background checks because it gives them fawning press coverage. I don't care what positive provisions there are. The Schumer-Toomey bill is a loser. Giving the feds another hand in my private property? Sounds like a great idea for gun grabbers.