SB 281: summary of revisions made at Good Friday mark up

[Viper-Snipe]

I'm not sure what you are quoting. But the committee did not change this exemption, which was described in my 13-point summary here. The exemption for a person who already owns a regulated handgun applies to the new training requirement only. You would still have to be fingerprinted and obtain the handgun qualification license before buying a new handgun.

Ah I see now...

V-S

 

[ddeanjohnson]

So i got a pbj for a assualt case last year so there going to come take my current guns away?

To get a definitive answer to that question, you would need to have the actual language of the Simmons Amendment, and probably a lawyer as well.

After the mark up, someone asked one of the Republican delegates (who opposed the Simmons Amendment) if he thought it would apply retrospectively, and the delegate said certainly not. I am not so sure. I'm no expert, but from what I've seen, firearms disqualifications, both federal and state, tend to be applied retroactively, and so far such applications have been held not to violate the Constitution's prohibitions on ex post facto penalties. I would certainly welcome an analysis by an attorney, once the language becomes available.

Again, the Simmons Amendment was strongly opposed by Judiciary Committee Chairman Vallario and by several liberal members of the committee, and by Delegate Smigel, so it is not clear it will survive the rest of the process.

A probation officer has told me that persons while on probation, at least in my county, are prohibited from possessing any type of firearm, as a condition of probation, regardless of the offense. Vallario made a similar point during the debate yesterday.

 

[ddeanjohnson]

My friend said that they "removed magazine bans on handguns and the fingerprinting for rifles". is this true?

No version of the bill has ever contained any fingerprinting requirement for rifles. Under the bill, if a rifle is an "assault" long gun, as listed or defined, then future acquisitions are banned. If the rifle is not so defined, it remains unregulated -- which is to say, you don't need a license to buy it. But the bill would impose blanket firearms disqualifications on several new classes of persons, and these would apply to all types of firearms, as discussed here and elsewhere.

The bill continues to contain a ban on purchase or sale of any detachable magazine that has a capacity of more than 10 rounds. This would apply to both handguns and long guns. It applies whether or not the magazine is part of the factory-issued new gun. The bill also defines any handgun with a "fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds" as a copycat assault firearm, and bans it.

 

[ddeanjohnson]

And how would they know if you are a current gun owner, part of the NICS check, or some form of ID shown saying you are a gun owner?V-S

This is not explained in the bill text and, during the times I was listening, which was most of the time, it was not discussed at the markup.

My speculation: the Maryland State Police will ask, as part of the application process for a Handgun Qualification License, whether you "lawfully owned a regulated firearm" prior to October 1, 2013. If you say "yes" and the transfer of that firearm is already in the state system, no problem. Now, you might lawfully possess a regulated firearm that did not pass through the state system. There's no need here to discuss the ways that might occur -- you might have moved into the state with it years ago, just for example. Presumably, if you could show documentation of that, the statutory exemption would apply. But this is something that would be spelled out in regulation, and they might just decide only to apply the exemption to transfers that area already in the state system. In that case, you'd be required to take the new training.

 

[madness3120]

So what if your banned AR is still in process with the MSP come OCT 1? Will it automatically be denied? Or there going to let everything in as long as paper work was done by 10/1??

 

[madness3120]

To get a definitive answer to that question, you would need to have the actual language of the Simmons Amendment, and probably a lawyer as well.

After the mark up, someone asked one of the Republican delegates (who opposed the Simmons Amendment) if he thought it would apply retrospectively, and the delegate said certainly not. I am not so sure. I'm no expert, but from what I've seen, firearms disqualifications, both federal and state, tend to be applied retroactively, and so far such applications have been held not to violate the Constitution's prohibitions on ex post facto penalties. I would certainly welcome an analysis by an attorney, once the language becomes available.

Again, the Simmons Amendment was strongly opposed by Judiciary Committee Chairman Vallario and by several liberal members of the committee, and by Delegate Smigel, so it is not clear it will survive the rest of the process.

A probation officer has told me that persons while on probation, at least in my county, are prohibited from possessing any type of firearm, as a condition of probation, regardless of the offense. Vallario made a similar point during the debate yesterday.

Yeah im not on probation. The judge struck my guilty disposition an gave me a pbj and since then brought 2 regulated firearms

 

[ddeanjohnson]

So what if your banned AR is still in process with the MSP come OCT 1? Will it automatically be denied? Or there going to let everything in as long as paper work was done by 10/1??

The committee-reported bill grandfathers in any "assault" weapon for which there is a "verifiable purchase order" on October 1, even if the dealer has not yet received the gun or submitted to the MSP. So it certainly would seem to follow that if the gun is already in the background-check system, it should be okay.

 

[madness3120]

Ok did they touch on transportation of assault weapons after oct 1? Will we be able to transport our banned weapons legally to the gun range?

 

[ddeanjohnson]

Ok did they touch on transportation of assault weapons after oct 1? Will we be able to transport our banned weapons legally to the gun range?

Yes. Under SB 281, if a firearm is covered by the grandfather clause, the owner may "continue to possess and transport the assault long gun or copycat weapon." It would be a mistake to propose further language on this point, for Maryland residents, because you will end up with something like the confusing list of acceptable destinations that have jammed up so many handgun owners in Maryland. As the bill stands right now, if you lawfully own it, you can lawfully transport it, period.

However, note that the transportation exception would not apply, in my opinion, to out-of-state persons who lawfully purchase "assault" weapons after October 1, and then bring them into Maryland -- for example, for a shooting competition. An amendment to allow transportation of any assault weapon for "lawful purposes" was rejected by the Democratic majority block as "unnecessary."

 

[Mike OTDP]

The committee-reported bill grandfathers in any "assault" weapon for which there is a "verifiable purchase order" on October 1, even if the dealer has not yet received the gun or submitted to the MSP. So it certainly would seem to follow that if the gun is already in the background-check system, it should be okay.

This will get interesting. What is a "verifiable purchase order"? I ordered a LaRue OBR a month ago. Does that count?

 

[ddeanjohnson]

This will get interesting. What is a "verifiable purchase order"? I ordered a LaRue OBR a month ago. Does that count?

While I will defer to the lawyers, it seems to me that if this bill is enacted in its current form, in the future if you are found to possess a firearm that is on the banned list, or is banned under the "copycat" definitions, the state would bear the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that your weapon is not grandfathered, either by possession or order before 10/1/13. Perhaps, however, I am mistaken, and you would bear the burden of showing that you qualify for the exception. Either way, you should prevail if you have solid documentation of the pre-10/1/13 order. Don't lose the documentation. In fact, if I were you, I would take it to a notary public and have it notarized, before the effective date.

 

[madness3120]

So basically get all the assault weapons you want before Oct 1st because as long as u live in the state of MD you will never ever be able to buy one afterwards

 

[Vile Shadow]

So basically get all the assault weapons you want before Oct 1st because as long as u live in the state of MD you will never ever be able to buy one afterwards

Hence the fact that there's none to be found.

 

[RugerRedbone]

What did they do with the characteristics test amendment? I haven't seen anything on that yet. And thank you so much for your help.

 

[ddeanjohnson]

What did they do with the characteristics test amendment? I haven't seen anything on that yet. And thank you so much for your help.

Sorry, I don't know what you are referring to by "the characteristics test amendment." The bill would prohibit the 45 named rifle models and "or their copies." But it also contains proposed new law to ban so-called "copy cat" firearms. Here, the term "copy cat" is just a political gimmick. It does not mean that the newly banned firearms are actually copies of anything. It just means that they have the characteristics that the legislature would decide to base a ban on. For example, some variants of the World War I era Finnish broomhandle mauser would be banned as a "copycat" assault weapon, because they have a fixed magazine that holds more than 10 rounds.

I've summarized these provisions of SB 281 here (and they did not change at the committee markup).

 

[-Z/28-]

So what happened to the LE/MIL/NG exemption amendment. Did it pass?

 

[Mobile]

Isn't the characteristics test now basically just the flash suppressor and grenade/flare launcher?

Not that it matters since they banned everything by name anyway.

 

[ddeanjohnson]

Isn't the characteristics test now basically just the flash suppressor and grenade/flare launcher? Not that it matters since they banned everything by name anyway.

I've summarized the "characteristics" ("copycat") provisions of SB 281 in the list I posted here, numbered items 7, 8, and 9 (and they did not change at the committee markup).

The bill would prohibit the 45 named rifle models and "or their copies." But it also contains proposed new law to ban so-called "copy cat" firearms. Here, the term "copy cat" is just a political gimmick. It does not mean that the newly banned firearms are actually copies of anything. It just means that they have the characteristics that the legislature would decide to base a ban on. For example, some variants of the World War I era Finnish broomhandle mauser would be banned as a "copycat" assault weapon, because they have a fixed magazine that holds more than 10 rounds. The verboten characteristics differ for rifles, shotguns, and handguns, so please see the specifics at the link above.

 

[ddeanjohnson]

So what happened to the LE/MIL/NG exemption amendment. Did it pass?

At this point, the bill has a different set of exemptions for each set of restrictions. Until we second the "second reading" version next week, I don't think we will know for sure what they all are. Which ones are you asking about? Exceptions to prohibition on acquisition of new assault weapons? Exception to the requirement for a handgun training license? Exceptions to the training requirement to obtain a handgun qualification license? Exceptions to the training requirement to obtain or renew a carry permit?

 

[-Z/28-]

At this point, the bill has a different set of exemptions for each set of restrictions. Until we second the "second reading" version next week, I don't think we will know for sure what they all are. Which ones are you asking about? Exceptions to prohibition on acquisition of new assault weapons? Exception to the requirement for a handgun training license? Exceptions to the training requirement to obtain a handgun qualification license? Exceptions to the training requirement to obtain or renew a carry permit?

There was an amendment to allow current LE/MIL/NG members to acquire assault weapons and keep them after retirement. I believe the reason for the amendment was so they could maintain proficiency or something. This is the one McDermett tried to get amended to include the "unorganized militia", hoping the libs were clueless.